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Post by alexkerhead on Apr 22, 2008 0:06:57 GMT -5
I think this is one of the best looking cameras ever built, I like the front door better than the III model.  This camera is righteous, as rightly built!  Here are the pics. Please critique.     Edited for: image repair |
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Apr 22, 2008 9:03:25 GMT -5
Alex,
You are right. That is one splendid camera.
It is a cameras' camera.
I have the Retina II which is very nice, indeed, although the viewfinder is rather substandard, but the II is nowhere near as classy as the IIa.
Now for the usual chorus .... "I gotta have one."
Mickey
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Post by alexkerhead on Apr 22, 2008 16:21:15 GMT -5
Alex, You are right. That is one splendid camera. It is a cameras' camera. I have the Retina II which is very nice, indeed, although the viewfinder is rather substandard, but the II is nowhere near as classy as the IIa. Now for the usual chorus .... "I gotta have one." Mickey Thanks Mickey! I'd love to see some pictures of the model II, to compare to the IIa if you don't mind snapping some. The IIa sells for much much much less than the IIIc/Cs. It has most of the same features and a nearly identical lens from what I read and see. The German made Kodaks seem to be of much higher quality than anything produced in the states. Besides the Reflex..Maybe. |
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Apr 22, 2008 18:54:51 GMT -5
Alex, There were two different models of Retina II, Type 011 and Type 014, and two different models of Retina IIa, Type 150 and Type 016. As far as I know there was only one model of the IIc, Type 020, and one of the IIC, Type 029. I think the difference in price between the IIa Type 016 (the one you have) and the IIc and IIC is in the quantities made and hence still available. All three were post-war cameras but more than 250,000 IIa Type 016 were made compared with 136,000 IIc and 18,700 IIC. I have the earlier, knob-wind IIa Type 150, which was made only during 1939 after which the war stopped production. It's the most rare of the lot, with only 5,107 made. I was fortunate in finding mine at the right price (read very cheaply) because the seller, a camera fair part-time dealer, didn't realise there was a pre-war and a post-war IIa . The pre-war ones usually fetch twice as much as the post-war ones. With regard to the difference in quality between German Kodaks and US Kodaks it's case of a different philosophy. The German Kodaks were designed by Dr. August Nagel (ex Zeiss Ikon, ex Contessa Nettel) who left Zeiss Ikon in 1929 to found his own company again. Kodak was looking for a base on the European mainland to produce quality cameras leaving its factories in the US, Canada and the UK to cater for the mass snapshot market. They bought the Nagel company in 1932 leaving August Nagel as technical director, and virtual head of the company. All German Kodaks were made in the Kodak August Nagel works in Stuttgart. August Nagel looked upon cameras more as scientific instruments than picture-making machines for snapshotters. He had designed and patented the 'throwaway' 35mm cassette to go with the Retina which he had planned in some detail before Kodak bought his company. The Retina and the new 35mm cassette put quality 35mm photography in the hands of many more people than just the well-off who could afford a Leica or Contax. August's brother Hugo was much more inclined to be a production engineering designer, more interested in reliability at a cheap price than high quality at a higher price. It's possible he had some suggestions to make to his brother about production of the 35mm cassette? He moved to Kodak's UK factory in 1932 and designed a whole string of very reliable and popular folding and box cameras for snapshotters, the price being kept down by mass production techniques rather than hand assembling. August Nagel did, at Kodak's request, design and produce a couple of Bownie box cameras for the German and UK markets but he couldn't bring himself to use wood and cardboard. His were all metal. Once the UK factory's mass production was on stream, the metal box cameras were taken over, with modifications, by Hugo and made in the UK. August Nagel died in 1943 but his design influence was carried on in the later folding Retinas (and folding Retinettes). Whether or not he would have approved of the later solid-bodied Retinas and Retinettes no-one will ever know. He was also, of course, unable to influence the design of the Retina Reflexes though his legacy of quality still lived on. PeterW |
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Post by alexkerhead on Apr 22, 2008 22:03:59 GMT -5
Thank you for the information Peter!
I do think we all collect for different reasons. For me, it is basically appearance oriented collecting. I buy based on what I think is nice looking. I like the feel of a heavey metal camera more than also, but a good-looking camera is hard to beat. I think the top-lever retinas with the square-ringed front hoods are the best looking in the series.
Anyway, thanks again for the information Peter!
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Post by Michael Fraley on Apr 22, 2008 22:30:24 GMT -5
Hi Alex,
I like the Retina pictures. I also appreciate the rotary phone and manual typewriter! We use a rotary phone at my house (from a garage sale). Well we have a princess phone too for push-button.. No manual typewriter but we still have our IBM Selectric (with type ball). Great pictures!
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Post by alexkerhead on Apr 22, 2008 23:22:17 GMT -5
Thanks Michael! Hehe, the selectric is a cool electronic typewriter. I am waiting to use my varityper as a prop. I know it'll turn some heads. It is nearly 2ft wide! |
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Apr 23, 2008 16:28:08 GMT -5
Retinas are climbing in price!
Maybe we're praising folding Retinas too much, or I'm waving the flag for August Nagel too much. Whatever the reason, folding Retinas described on ebay UK as being in good working order with clean lenses have been climbing in price over the past six months.
Just over a year ago you could pick up quite nice examples for around £15 to £20 ($30 to $40), and non-working or with sticking shutters for around £8 to £10 ($16 to $20). All including postage. At camera fairs you could take £5 to £8 off those prices.
I've been keeping an eye on folding Retinas on ebay because I've collected them for about a couple of years. I've got five at the moment, and it looks as if it might stay at that number for a time. Here are the results for the past two months for those described as in very good order. Prices include UK postage.
Model IIc, £54.00
Model IIIC, £183.50
Model II, £57.00
Model I Type 117, the first model Retina in 1934, £91.45. This one had just had an overhaul and new bellows, and looked beautiful!
Double these prices, near enough, for USD, and add another £10 approx for postage to the US.
All the prices jumped about 200% - 300% in last minutes of the auctions.
I was really surprised by the price realised by the Type 117. Yes, it was the first model and therefore a landmark, but there were 60,000 of them made in two years. I haven't got one unfortunately because I haven't yet found one at my cheapskate price ... but I will, one day!
But about 18 months ago I picked up at a camera fair a model 118, the second model and only very slightly different, for £5.00. OK, the shutter was jammed and the leather was filthy but both of those were easily fixed.
The Type 118 is one of the more rare Retinas. There were only 9,144 Type 118 made in just over 12 months before the Type 119 (black top plate) appeared and sold 39,000 in about 18 months even though Type 126, very similar but with a chromium plated top plate, was on sale at the same time and also sold about 39,000.
I haven't seen a Type 118 in any condition offered for sale for a long time.
These production figures may be small fry compared with 70 million Kodak 126 Instamatics made from 1963 onwards, but they were the mass production outpourings from three major Kodak factories in the US, Canada and UK. The folding Retinas were hand assembled in one smallish factory in Germany.
All the production figures come from Brian Coe's excellent book Kodak, the First 100 Years. Brian ought to have the figures right because when he wrote the book he was curator of the Kodak Museum at Kodak's Harrow, UK, factory. That fine collection is now in The National Museum of Photography, Film and Television at Bradford, about three hours by train north of London. It's part of the National Science Museum.
I haven't been there, but I want to go one day. From what I've heard it has grown in size over the past few years, and you need at least one whole day. The exhibits are on four floors and include several 'hands-on' displays using replicas of some very early wooden cameras, and several genuine old television and studio film cameras. I'm also told there's a very good camera bookshop, so I shall take my piggy bank. I wonder if photography is allowed, or if you have the buy the museum's photos of the exhibits?
PeterW
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Post by Just Plain Curt on Apr 23, 2008 19:58:17 GMT -5
I'm with Peter in following the prices of Retinas and many others, all going up at least double what I paid less than three years ago. Seems like I routinely get outbid on most everything these days. Not a bad thing, I still get my share of Zenits, Prakticas and M42 SLR's but he old stuff is sure drawing bids.
I like your collecting style there Alex. I can't pass up almost anything old and either mechanical or electronic. Guess I'm an addict for chrome and crinkle finishes. Just bought an old Sony reel to reel recorder/player and two boxes of 36 tapes for the princely sum of $10. An 8mm editing machine was added to my three projectors so now I can watch a box of home movies from a woman who'd travelled the world extensively in the 1960's. I just got rid of an old Underwood typewriter that I just had no room for, but I still pick up old tools, drafting/machinist tools, toys, etc....... I know, a fool and his money and all that but at least I'll die with an enormous horde of history, LOL.
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Apr 24, 2008 13:58:31 GMT -5
Alex,
No. I am not ignoring your request for photos of the Retina II.
I took some pictures of the Retina and attempted to export them to Photobucket.
It has changed since I last used it ---- without even asking my permission.
Once I get it figured out and as soon as I do I will post the pictures.
Mickey
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Post by alexkerhead on Apr 24, 2008 15:14:47 GMT -5
Alex, No. I am not ignoring your request for photos of the Retina II. I took some pictures of the Retina and attempted to export them to Photobucket. It has changed since I last used it ---- without even asking my permission. Once I get it figured out and as soon as I do I will post the pictures. Mickey No worries Mickey. Photobucket has got me mixed up nicely also. The pictures will be the same today or a week from now. |
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Apr 24, 2008 18:30:25 GMT -5
Stephen,
I have about 250 cameras. Most of them were purchased on eBay.
I have never sold any on eBay or elsewhere so I can only speak as a buyer, not a seller.
I constantly hear people cursing eBay, evilBay, greedBay, etc. etc.
Why? Nobody is being forced to use their services.
If one is so dissatisfied with what eBay provides there are alternatives.
Would eBay have grown to its present size if it were as dreadful as some people make out? It is in a large part what its vendors and purchasers make it.
I am not defending eBay and I know that no entity is perfect but eBay has enabled me and, undoubtedly, many others to acquire what I wanted without having to travel the world over for unusual and uncommon items.
Toronto, where I live, is a very big city but the dearth of shops selling collector desirable cameras makes eBay a welcome and necessary part of my collecting hobby.
Now, back to @#<&**>@ Photobucket.
Mickey
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Apr 24, 2008 19:40:45 GMT -5
Hi Steve, Yes, I agree with pretty well everything you said. I don't get out and about so much looking for cameras these days, but like you I find there are still quite a few about. We're in the same area, but I don't think we really compete. A few years ago I would go for more or less anything with a lens on the front provided it was cheap, but since I started pruning down my collection, with a few exceptions, to European cameras before about 1960 I often pass up a lot of later stuff. I don't find as many cameras locally as I used to, the local charity shops are a dead loss these days. I go to the Ashford boot fair, where we see each other from time to time, but I don't go every week. I find that despite the covered area it's not worth the effort if the weather's inclined to be wet nor it's very cold. There just aren't enough stalls. Maybe when the weather gets better more stuff will come out of the woodwork. I've been to the Kent camera fair only once in quite a time, and was a bit disappointed. Either the stuff was priced too high or it needed too much doing to it. Like you I'm not averse to digging in a camera's innards to try to fix it, but don't have the same inclination these days as I once had to do so just for the sake of it. Probably a sign of getting old  , or a case of been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I quite enjoy cosmetic work, repainting or recovering, and I still enjoy digging inside Compur and Prontor shutters despite the number of times I've done it. Just as well, keeping in mind the collecting period I've chosen. When I thinned down my accumulation I put quite a few cameras on ebay and was generally quite pleased with what they fetched. More than I could have got for them if I'd taken a boot fair stall. Buying on ebay? I appreciate that for quite a few of our members there isn't much alternative. Unlike the UK where you're seldom all that far from a boot fair or flea market such places are somewhat thin on the ground in some countries. I buy on ebay from time to time, and have to say that I see very little evidence of sellers trying to hike the price illegally, though it's obvious from the pictures that sometimes their description is a good example of creative writing - or the English tendency towards understatement. I always set a firm limit on my bidding, and nine times out of ten get outbid. That's OK, like buses, there's always another coming along soon. Cameras from my collecting era seem to have climbed in price recently more than later stuff. Possibly a simple case of supply and demand when you get more picky and choosey. At the moment I'm waiting for one to arrive in the post, a little 1930s Agfa 127 folder. The seller seemed to describe it quite honestly, and the pictures were clear. It was offered it spares or repair because the seller said the focusing was stiff, not at all unusual, and the Compur shutter wouldn't cock on B or T. I'm not really surprised about that because earlier Compurs weren't supposed to . We'll see what it's like when it arrives, and I'll post a pic of it. I got it for one bid above the low opening bid so I can't really grumble if it turns out to be a lemon. Buying when you can't handle a camera is always a gamble. Sometimes you're lucky, other times not. Happy hunting to everyone! PeterW |
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Post by alexkerhead on Apr 25, 2008 13:59:32 GMT -5
I get my cameras from a variety of places. I get most from being connected at my Dad's fleamarket, I have a few people who are dealers, who pick cameras up, and sometimes sell for a little profit, and now and then, they sell them to me for cost. However, these are usually lower-end cameras, like brownies, low-end yashica 35MMs, and such. Sometimes a gem will pop up like the Ikonta, but the fleamarket isn't the end-all be all. I get about a third of my collection from ebay. I wait for badly listed auctions that end at 3 or 4 am in the morning. I've gotten a couple of contaflexes for <$20 before. If you wait for a good buy-it now, or a badly written auction with bad ending times, you can find good deals. However, I stick by ONE rule. No camera is worth over $100 to me. This ensures I don't waste too much money buying Leicas and stuff that cost $500+, to just sit in my display case. I think the Contaflexes are better looking than Leicas, so I am at an advantage to what I like, as I think some of the most desirables out there are ugly little things.. |
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Apr 27, 2008 15:27:19 GMT -5
Steven,
It seems to me that your complaints are more with the users of eBay, the sellers and purchasres, than with eBay itself.
I do agree that eBay is not perfect but they can only exercise so much control over the users.
I have had my problems with vendors. Most have been ironed out amicably. A few have not been resolved to my satisfaction.
I am very definitely not a gambler but I realise, as you say, it is a form of on line gambling.
I, therefore, do all in my power to insure that I get what I expect. I still get stung occasionally through no fault of eBay.
Ebay frequently has to be an arbitrator between two warring parties. That is an unenviable position and must often result in no happy litigants.
As for an item's value. It can only be what someone is willing to pay for it. If some jackass is willing to mortgage his house for an Argus C3 then that is the value of the camera until some other person buys it for $10£. Then it has a new and more realistic value.
Anyway, I envy the British their boot sales. I wish we had them here. The trouble is our cars don't have boots - or bonnets.
Happy hunting,
Mickey
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, or a case of been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I quite enjoy cosmetic work, repainting or recovering, and I still enjoy digging inside Compur and Prontor shutters despite the number of times I've done it. Just as well, keeping in mind the collecting period I've chosen.