PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Jun 6, 2007 19:25:31 GMT -5
Ron Herron wrote Good for you, Ron. I must admit, though, that I don't use a separate meter with the T70, nor did I with the A1 or F1. But I certainly do when I'm using an older camera. I used to have a Weston Euromaster till I stupidly dropped it on concrete and it broke. I sometimes used this with its Invacone as an incident light meter, but on the whole I prefer reflected light meters used, I hope, sensibly, if I can get close to the subject. If I can't, I take a general reading from the grass or a neutral colour roadway or even the palm of my hand, look at the tone range of the subject and adjust the reading with an educated ( ) guess. At the moment I use a cheap Lenngrad 4 selenium meter which I find is surprisingly accurate and consistent. Sometimes I'll bracket, but with colour print I usually find there's bugger-all difference half a stop up or half a stop down. The trouble with an incident light meter is that it doesn't know whether the subject is in bright light or shadow, if it's white stonework or dark brick nor, if it's a person, whether they're wearing a white shirt or a dark suit. The only times I've relied on an incident reading is with a Sekonic flash meter, using three big Bowens studio flash units to take product shots in a studio (oh all right then, a converted spare room), and then I held the meter right down against the subject, and took a Polaroid first to check before using an expensive sheet of 5x4 transparency film. BTW, veering off tack a bit, the Spotmatic doesn't, as some people believe, give 'spot' meter readings. It doesn't average the full frame, but the meter's angle of view is relatively wide. Pentax offered a true hand-held spot meter rather like a small telescope, with, if I recall correctly, a viewing angle of about 1 degree or so, but it cost more than a complete Spotmatic. I could never justify one. Cheaper spot meters, I understand, had a much wider view, but had a tiny shielded CdS cell in the middle of the 'frame' so you had to 'aim' this little centre spot when you used them. I never had one of those either. But I'm in danger of going off on another ramble, and it's far too late. PeterW
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Post by byuphoto on Jun 6, 2007 20:51:32 GMT -5
Ron H. I think people with a grounding in film and manual cameras will always have an edge over the Gee whiz I just bought a camera at the electronics store crowd. We understand light, exposure and all the other little things the new crowd will never get. I would never trade my time in a darkroom for anything but at the same time do not care to go back. I have even gotten to shooting the C41 B&W so I can get it done ata the lab. But I learned tones and constrast from that time. I got a friend with a Canon 30D and one lens. she has never gotten off of the green mode or changed lens. would be better off with a P&S She knows absolutely nothing about exposure or light. I tried to teach a free photo class last winter all they wanted to learn was how to use the latest whizbang 2000 in auto mode. Didn't give a hoot about f stop, shutter speed exposure or light. They could care less about this but just want to know HOW to take better photos and why their $2000 rig want best my old film cams I tell them the old muscle car saying " It ain't what is between the gears but what is between the ears" Sorry i get started and then my Peter W wannabe kicks in ;-)
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Post by kiev4a on Jun 6, 2007 22:10:40 GMT -5
Don't know is this is a good example of "old guy thinking" or not. My D100 has three metering modes--Matrix, spot and the old 60:40 weighted balance used clear back on the Nikon FTn. The manual basically says Matrix is best because it analyzes points all over the frame and chooses the best possible balance.
So, I'm shooting on a bright sunny day with blue sky and anything in the shadows is going too dark and losing detail. I pull out my old selenium Sekonic meter and take a reading and shoot based on it in manual mode. Shadows are much lighter and picture has better overall balance. Then, out of curiosity, I switch the D100 meter to 60:40 and get the same reading as the Sekonic. So now, when I shoot in bright sunlight, I switch to 60:40 mode and switch back to matrix for overcast and available light shots indoors.
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Post by herron on Jun 7, 2007 11:44:36 GMT -5
........Ron H. I think people with a grounding in film and manual cameras will always have an edge over the Gee whiz I just bought a camera at the electronics store crowd. We understand light, exposure and all the other little things the new crowd will never get. I would never trade my time in a darkroom for anything but at the same time do not care to go back. I have even gotten to shooting the C41 B&W so I can get it done ata the lab..... Agreed. I once tried to explain to a "Gee Whiz, lookit my digital latest" friend how changing the shutter speed and aperture would let him get "out of focus backgrounds" that he had admired in a couple of my shots. He just didn't get it. Kept wanting to know what auto setting to use (he was sure there had to be one). I don't care to go back to the darkroom either....although I keep dancing around the fringe of doing B&W neg development myself. I think about it (and C41 B&W) every time I try to find someone to develop my B&W stuff!
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Post by byuphoto on Jun 7, 2007 12:29:41 GMT -5
Ron I have had excellent results with Ilford XP2 Every time I have to go the the VA hospital I stop at Dee's photo and stock up. Since I have a pro lab I trust their developing and scanning. They scan to a TIFF for me. I haven't used the Epson V750 for a month. I guess I need to auction of the Epsom 4180 I have
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Post by John Parry on Jun 7, 2007 14:40:34 GMT -5
Wayne - that's an old guy thinking digital post!
But you're right, I don't fully explore the capabilities of the later cameras I've got, not because I'm not a tinkerer, but because I know how to get what I'm looking for on the manual settings. I have been delighted (for internal shots), by the results of switching the camera to auto, putting a powerful auto-flash on it, pointing it upwards about 60 degrees, and blasting away. Rick and I discussed the merits of this method once before, and it works!!
Older cameras, I can't get too stressed about the metering methods. I tend to open the aperture slightly more than the meter indication - whichever system the camera uses, and rely on the flexibility of modern film and processing to get something I'm looking for. And, if in doubt, always bracket. That works too - but it may well explain why I'm so cr@p with black and white!
Regards - John
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Jun 7, 2007 19:12:34 GMT -5
Ron Herron wrote:
Ron, I've never been ultra-happy with the contrast of C41 B&W, and there always seems to be a faint colour tinge with it either towards sepia or magenta, especially if it's printed on colour paper by a one-hour shop.
I used to do my own C41 processing, and colour printing, when I had a darkroom but I turned the darkroom back into a bedroom when my son John and his wife Wendy and my grandchildren came to live with me ten years ago. When the older grandchildren got married and left home I thought of setting up again but quite frankly I'd lost the urge. Got too used to the convenience of scaning negs into a computer and 'dry' printing them. The enlarger, trays, colour print tank, print driers and so on were stacked in the loft for ages till I eventually part-sold part-swapped most of it with a photographer friend who still does his own wet colour prints.
Nowadays I don't process my own C41 any more. I'm all for the easy laid-back life, but I haven't put a B&W film out for processing for about 30 years. I load the film into the tank inside a changing bag, and process it on a small table in my den with the tank and bottles in a tray to catch the drips.
It really is incredibly easy, it ain't rocket science and you can take all sorts of liberties with it whatever it says in the book. I measure out cough mixture with more care!
I rate FP4 at 200 and HP5 at 400, and develop in straight ID11/D76, no dilution. I pour the dev in the tank, give it a tap to dislodge any air bubbles and start a cheap digital stopwatch. At nine and half minutes (minus zero plus anything up to about 20sec) at 20 degrees C (plus or minus a degree or so) I pour the dev back into the bottle and pour in the stop bath. That stays in there for a minute or so while I mop up any drips from the tray. Then I pour that back into its bottle and pour in Ilford Rapid Fix diluted 1+4 with water.
After another five to six minutes or so - it's not critical - I pour that back into its bottle and wash the negs. If the water from the cold tap is more than five degrees colder than 20 degrees I give the film a couple of rinses in gradually lower temperature water, then shove a small hose from the tap into the top of tank and let it wash while I make a coffee.
The last rinse gets three or four drops of wetting agent and then I hang the film up to dry. If I'm in a hurry I dry the film in about two minutes with a hair drier run up and down each side. Provided the exposure of the shots was about right I get good printable negs every time.
It's all very leisurely and needs very little concentration. From putting the cassette in the changing bag to hanging up the strip of negs takes about 20 - 25 minutes - including the coffee - and last time I costed it out of interest each roll cost me about 20p (say 40c).
When I did a lot of B&W I used to make up the dev in 5 litre batches but now I mix 1 litre and, as my tank takes two films and holds 200ml I store it in five dark wine bottles (carefully labelled and kept in a cupboard in my den so there's no danger of anyone drinking it) I seal the bottles with some of the rubber one-way-valve bungs and draw out the air to stop it oxidising using a small plastic hand pump - most wine shops sell these for keeping part-used bottles of wine fresh. You don't have to use dark bottles for stop or fix, and there's no need to draw out the air.
Fresh-mixed dev will keep for about seven months and used dev about a month to five weeks - give or take. 500ml of dev will process four films, the first two at my standard time and the second plus half a minute. It looks a bit grey and murky after four films, but it still does the biz OK. I change the stop and fix when I change the dev. If you use smaller centre-loading stainless steel dev tanks they hold less dev so it's even more economical. I prefer these, but one of my reels rolled off the table when I was drying them and dented the spiral, and as I had a larger plastic tank I haven't yet got around to replacing it.
So don't dance around the fringes or think about it any longer. Get yourself a changing bag, a tank and some chemicals and DO IT. It really is soooo easy, and you'll never bother sending out B&W again.
One little tip, wear thin cotton gloves while loading the tank, then if you happen to touch the film other than at the edges you won't get fingermarks. Keep them in the changing bag and they won't need washing for months.
PeterW
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Post by herron on Jun 7, 2007 23:12:00 GMT -5
Peter: I actually got out my old changing bag earlier this year. Had not used it in a great many years. Needed to unload a roll of 120 film that was jammed somehow in an old folder...wouldn't rewind. Got the film out OK...but realized the changing bag had seen better days (the insides were flaking all over). I guess 40 years was all I could expect from it. Threw it out. Used to have a darkroom, but dismantled it a couple of houses ago. Don't have a clue what I did with the film developer tanks, or the Gralock timer or the safelights. I know I used the stainless steel sink as a garden sink for my bride...and that was house before last! Found pieces of my old enlarger (while I was looking for the changing bag). Didn't have the heart to toss it. The rest of the pieces are in the basement... somewhere. I need to get a new changing bag, developing tank and the chems (I noticed tonight on the way home that one of my favorite camera and photo supply shops has closed). Already ordered a brick of Ilford XP2 Super from B&H.
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Jun 8, 2007 8:03:46 GMT -5
Ron: Huh?? I never have been able to rewind 120 film in a folder. I've always wound it fully on till the backing paper finshed going through. . PeterW
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Post by herron on Jun 8, 2007 8:19:13 GMT -5
Ron: Huh?? I never have been able to rewind 120 film in a folder. I've always wound it fully on till the backing paper finshed going through. . PeterW LOL!! Meant to say it wouldn't fully wind to complete the roll. Didn't want to take it out of the camera and risk ruining several shots. Must be I was groggier at midnight than I thought I was. Good thing I wasn't driving!
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SidW
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Post by SidW on Jun 9, 2007 17:45:44 GMT -5
A black bag is a wonderful asset - for opening jammed cameras, for opening cassetes and loading developing tank reels etc.
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Jun 9, 2007 21:41:31 GMT -5
My changing bag is plastic. It doesn't breath. It gets so miserably uncomfortable in there that when possible I prefer to wait for the availability of a darkroom or even a dark closet. Or a total eclipse of the sun.
Mickey
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Reiska
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Post by Reiska on Jun 10, 2007 4:26:08 GMT -5
Helpful grandma I was once in a dark closet. My grandma came and asked: "What are you doing there???" ..."I'm changing a film" ... "You sure can't see anything in the darkness" ....The switch was outside closet Changed ideas: Actually most of my ideas. I like to be in touch or I don't have a backbone or something between.
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Jun 10, 2007 7:35:14 GMT -5
Mickey:
About thirty years ago I made myself a 'Dark Box'. I got the idea from a commercial one in a studio.
I made a plywood box roughly 18 inches cube, getting a friend with a saw bench to cut the pieces for me so I got a good fit. The lid had a double rebate with black felt as a light seal, and was fastened down by a couple of over-centre toggle catches. To make sure it was light-tight I coated the mating surfaces with hard-setting black mastic before screwing the thing together. I also sprayed the inside matt black, though this probably wasn't necessary
I had a changing bag on which the zip had broken so I cut the arms off this and fixed them from the inside through a couple of holes in the front with a ring of black felt between the edges of the arms and the box. It looked like a small grit-blasting cabinet but without the glass lid.
It was completely light tight, and was so useful for things like loading a dev tank, loading bulk film into a winder and so on. Much nicer than a floppy changing bag. It fell into disuse when I got a darkroom and was eventually taken apart because I needed the room.
Now I no longer have a darkroom I was toying with the idea of making myself another one. A few weeks ago I was looking at a fairly big plastic cold-box in my local camping shop and wondering if it would be easier to convert that than make a wooden one, assuming that the double-walled plastic was totally opaque.
Ideas, anyone?
PeterW
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Post by doubs43 on Jun 10, 2007 13:44:57 GMT -5
Peter, reading your development routine for B&W film, you don't mention agitation..... just 9.5 minutes in ID-11/D-76 with an initial tap to dislodge bubbles. Is that correct or do you invert the tank now and again?
The cold chest idea seems workable even if you have to use steel wool to roughen the inner surface and paint it flat black to ensure it's light-tight. It's a good idea for loading developing reels/tanks and even loading bulk rolls into a film loader.
Walker
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