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Post by Michael Fraley on Jan 20, 2008 15:42:44 GMT -5
Please tell me I'm not crazy to have just bought an expensive film camera, a Leica M7. I debated between it and an Epson RD-1, mostly because I like using a rangefinder and posting on RangeFinderForum. Then I started getting interested in older SLRs, and recently bought a Minolta SRT-201. Of course for almost nothing, compared to the M7. If I can use the M7 for 5-10 years I think it will have returned the investment. It was my mid-life crisis red convertible, I guess. But it really is a nice camera to use.
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Post by GeneW on Jan 20, 2008 16:53:36 GMT -5
Michael, you're not crazy (but then we might not be the best people to judge). You will enjoy the M7 to pieces, I'm sure of that. IMO, the Leica experience is like no other. They sure do make SLR's look like bargain shopping don't they? I picked up another Nikon body recently (EM) for $50 and it was in fine shape. Take your 'red convertible' with you everywhere and I'm looking forward to seeing your pics!
Gene
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Jan 20, 2008 17:28:53 GMT -5
Dave, Nice to hear from you again after a long break. Hope all is well with you.
You wrote:
Sorry to be sceptical about this, but I think the days of the 6x6 fixed lens TLR as a current production camera are long gone.
Yes, the 124G is popular at the moment which has pushed the price of good ones up compared with, say, a year ago, but why this somewhat sudden popularity I don't know. I don't have a 124G but I have a good Yashica-Mat. It takes excellent pictures though I haven't used it for a long time because, as I think I've already said, I don't really take to TLRs. I've also got an Ikoflex, a Rolleiflex and a Rolleicord, all from the 1930s, and all working but in need of a little TLC. I shall keep them just as collectable cameras, not users.
That's purely a personal opinion. The 6x6 TLR enjoyed a very long run in popularity after it was first introduced by Franke & Heidecke in the late 1920s/early 1930s, and Rolleis in particular have an almost fanatical following today with international collectors clubs. Many other makers followed with examples, some very good, some not so good and some just extended box cameras.
The better ones like the Rolleis, Ikoflexes, Microflexes and Yashicas are wonderful examples of precision cameras from a by-gone age of camera making. But IMHO that's where they belong together with some of the beautiful folding cameras, as collectable examples of an age of camera making somewhat sadly no longer with us, for people like us to appreciate, enjoy owning and, perhaps, occasionally using.
PeterW
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Post by doubs43 on Jan 20, 2008 18:49:39 GMT -5
Unlike Peter, I like the TLR. Mostly, I suppose, it's the 6 x 6 format that 35mm can't match if all else is equal. Secondly, the TLR gives a lower perspective than an eye-level camera. That can be either good or not so good, depending upon the situation. It's nice to have a shutter that syncs with electronic flash at all speeds. The TLR in most cases offers one focal length so carrying extra lenses and trying to decide which to use isn't a problem. OTOH, the 6 x 6 SLR is more flexible at the expense of additional weight and things to carry. Franke & Heidecke still market a new Rolleiflex TLR but at a price guaranteed to cause a corinary to most of us. But, I suppose they must sell a few as they keep making them. Peter is, IMO, correct in his assessment of the marketing of a new Yashica 124G; it's not feasible from a profit-making standpoint. As nice as the Yashica 124G is (I once owned a new model 124), it's not a Rollei by any stretch as I've recently said. The 124G would stand up to advanced amature use but in professional use, it would likely be unsatisfactory in a relatively short period. My last roll of film was shot with a Yashica-44 (4 x 4 format on 127 roll film) and I'm waiting to develope it. My next roll of film will likely be through an Ikoflex Ia TLR. After that, I don't know!  Walker |
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Jan 20, 2008 19:47:40 GMT -5
Walker:
Thanks for that info. Well! You live and learn. I didn't know that F&H still offered a Rolleiflex TLR. I thought they ended it with the various 'anniversary' and special order models they made about five or six years ago. Are they now 'special order' or 'on-spec' production?
I knew they were still making cameras (after a couple of confusing name changes from F&H to Rollei-Werke and back again) but I thought that these were all very advanced electronic 6x6 SLR cameras developed in co-operation with Jenoptik, Komamura, Carl Zeiss and possibly other companies as well, with the option of digital backs - or maybe the film back is optional? No idea of price, but I'll bet it looks like a telephone number.
PeterW
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Post by GeneW on Jan 20, 2008 20:16:17 GMT -5
All this talk of TLR's -- Rolleiflexes and Yashicamat 124G's. Talk about ironic: today I parted with my Rolleiflex 3.5F, selling it to a local photographer who has become seriously passionate about TLR 6x6 format. It was a beautiful camera, with lots of accessories, but I didn't use it enough and was glad to see it go to someone who would appreciate it.
I like TLR's though. In place of the Rollei I recently picked up a Yashicamat 124G of all things. My use of TLR's is casual so I think the build quality is good enough. I also recently picked up a Minolta Autocord. The Yashicamat is a little slicker and easier to use (it is an almost exact copy of the Rollei design), but I suspect the Minolta has the better lens. The Minolta feels a little more rugged too.
I can't say the prices were out of line. I think I paid $150 for the Autocord (which had recently been CLA'd) and something like $120 for the very clean Yashicamat.
Gene
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Post by doubs43 on Jan 20, 2008 20:57:51 GMT -5
Peter, I found the Rolleiflex 2.8 FX at two different stores: B&H Photo (out of stock) and Audorama. The availability from Audorama isn't shown. However, you can see what they say about it here: www.adorama.com/RL28FX.html?searchinfo=Rolleiflex%202.8%20FX&item_no=3B&H lists the FX at $4,444.00 while Audorama show a couple of prices with the top one being $3,749.95. Those prices are both pushing dangerous blood pressure levels for me! I, too, didn't know that new Rolleis were available until a few days back when it was mentioned on the Rollei Group that I belong to. I got the impression that they're a stock item being made in limited numbers but that may also mean "Special Order". IMO, as a film camera they are either a cult item or a status symbol unless I'm missing something. If a digital back could be adapted to a TLR, it would be a tempting addition although I suppose they'd be priced higher than the FX.  Gene, I hope you didn't interpret my previous remarks as meaning that the Yashica 124G is unworthy. I surely didn't mean to give anyone that impression as the 124 and the 124G are both quite capable cameras. The Autocord is also a fine camera and I'd like to add the Ricoh Diacord to the list. The prices you paid are excellent as I see both cameras sell for much more on ebay. Walker |
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Post by kiev4a on Jan 20, 2008 21:21:02 GMT -5
Back in my newspaper days we bought some TLRs--1 Rolleiflex 2.8 and two or three Yashicaflexes--This was about 1966. The used TLRs until about 1980. The first Yashicas had worn out and were replaced by more Yashicas (124Gs--I think) and some of that group were replaced again. Meanwhile, the Rollei retired battered but still working.
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Post by GeneW on Jan 20, 2008 21:37:43 GMT -5
Gene, I hope you didn't interpret my previous remarks as meaning that the Yashica 124G is unworthy. I surely didn't mean to give anyone that impression as the 124 and the 124G are both quite capable cameras. The Autocord is also a fine camera and I'd like to add the Ricoh Diacord to the list. The prices you paid are excellent as I see both cameras sell for much more on ebay. Walker Walker, not at all. I knew exactly what you meant about the build quality, and Wayne's experience bears it out. The Yashicamats were not built to professional standards. Pros use gear a lot harder than folks like me. It's one of the reasons I might keep both the 124G and the Autocord -- if one fails, I'll still have the other to shoot with. I've not seen a Ricoh Diacord but have heard good things about them. Gene |
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Post by Michael Fraley on Jan 20, 2008 21:53:04 GMT -5
I bought a Yashicamat 124G about two years ago, for under $150 US. It was in excellent shape and didn't need a CLA. I have some Reala and Acros film waiting to go. It's a different experience. Gene, I think you'll like it. The lens is really very good. Here's a couple of examples:   |
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Post by GeneW on Jan 21, 2008 6:13:37 GMT -5
Michael, both of those shots are lovely. The chess & tea setup really appeals to me. Years ago I used to play chess fairly frequently. Not that I was ever very good, but it's an elegant game.
The fog shot is amazing. There's a subtlety to it that I associate with medium format.
Do you use your TLR fairly often?
Gene
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Reiska
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Post by Reiska on Jan 21, 2008 7:43:24 GMT -5
Michael, by no way, you are not crazy. Use your Leica and enjoy.
In the most schools they are still using film cameras to teach the basics of the photography. So, it is not only an ebay term, that “student camera”.
How long this will continue and is it necessary anymore? If it is, it will probably lengthen the use of film.
Those unreasonable high prices on B&H and Adorama might simply be efforts to get prices higher and also for confusing the awareness about the prices.
One thing is sure, when time elapses old film cameras, collectibles and “uncollectibles” will pile up on the hands of the collectors.
Does it mean the increase in value is another thing. Perhaps some day we could show a camera and ask the people: Guess what this is?
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Post by nikkortorokkor on Jan 21, 2008 13:36:10 GMT -5
Back around the end of the last century I was using my newly purchased 124G (absolute mint, bought for around 200 aussie dollars from the local Rollei dealer) in downtown Brisbane. A woman comes up to me and asks 'Is that one of those new Digital cameras?' Dunno what that means,but it stil tickles my fancy.
New Zealand's most famous Rollei user is Ans Westra, an amazingly sensitive documentary photographer who's work has caused controversy and wonder for over 40 years. I've seen TV footage of Ans at work and can't help but think that the TLR makes a capable, if unusual street shooter. The interesting perspective that Walker writes of is IMHO evident in Ans' work. Google Image Search Ans Westra for some of her more famous images.
Michael, your images both sum up everything I love about Med. format in capable hands.
Hopefully my forty dollar Weltaflex arrives today.
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