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Post by paulatukcamera on Aug 13, 2005 18:57:36 GMT -5
Have you noticed how Agfa cameras have reached new depths? This little 1959 Silette sold a few minutes ago for $1.04 cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7537030385&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1Admittedly it was the three element Apotar rather than the four element Solinar (actually my first camera!) and has no meter or rangefinder like the Super Automatic versions, but they don't fetch much either, nor the Optimas. Even the rare motor driven Selecta M seems to have halved in value from around $120 to $60. Perhaps saddest of all the little Selectronic S compacts are lucky to make $10. I now own four, because I keep thinking - they may be unloved now, but like the penny shares, if they do go up, I'll double my money!
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Post by Randy on Aug 14, 2005 21:50:24 GMT -5
I had an SLE, and I gave it to my son because it IRKed me.
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Aug 15, 2005 18:24:22 GMT -5
Hi,
Yes, I've also noticed that Agfas fetch very little nowadays in the UK. Even the original Optima of 1959, the world's first fully automatic camera, hardly gets a thank you. But then nor does any other medium-priced fixed lens 35mm or 120 folding camera from the 1960s. People, except us sensibly mad collectors, just don't want them any more.
BTW, don't make the mistake of damning the Apotar with faint praise. Yes, it was a triplet, but its performance was way ahead of Agfa's other triplet, the Agnar. Indeed its performance outshone most triplets of the time. UK photo mags in the 60s even rated it above some 'Tessar-type' four-glass lenses. I've got a Super Silette with an Apotar and it takes lovely pictures.
The cream of the Agfa lenses on Silettes, though, was the Solagon, as far as I know fitted only to the Super Silettes in the range. This was a six-element Gauss design and a really sharp lens with excellent contrast. If you find a good condition Super Silette with a Solagon in a Synchro-Compur going for peanuts it's a bargain. I picked mine up for £2, roughly $3.50.
Going back to the Apotar, this was was originally a Rietzschell name. A. Heinrich Rietzschell GmbH Optische Fabrik to give it its full name, in Munich, had been a well respected lens and camera maker for over 30 years when Agfa decided it wanted to get in the camera market and bought Reitzschell outright in 1925. The Agfa Apotar, though, was not the same lens as the old Reitzschell Apotar.
The big problem that Agfa faced with its fixed-lens 35mm cameras in the UK in the 1960s (and Kodak with its non-folding Retinettes) was the competition given by Ilford's Sportsman range. The Sportsman is, IMHO, a vastly under-rated range today. It was made for Ilford by Dacora in Germany and, rather like T&OE who imported Russian cameras, Ilford kept a small army of technicians who checked and, if necessary, corrected every camera and lens before it went out to a dealer. You just don't find any badly made ones. UK amateurs who wanted something above the snapshot range but couldn't afford an interchangeable lens camera, soon cottoned on to the value of the solidly-built and reliable Sportsman, and at one time in the 1960s Ilford claimed over 50% of the UK 35mm market with it - around 40,000 cameras a year.
But today - who wants a Sportsman? Only a few specialist Ilford collectors (and me, but then I'm a sucker for anything well made with a lens on the front, provided it's cheap enough). At the moment they're as common as leaves in autumn (sorry, in the Fall). You almost get paid to take them away. Sic Transit Gloria!
But, in a few years time when most of these fixed-lens cameras have gone into the scrap crusher, up will go the collector's value because they'll be WOW! RARE! Pick a few up for less than the cost of a cup of coffee while they're still around.
Sorry for the long screed. Here endeth the history lesson.
Peter
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Post by paulatukcamera on Aug 15, 2005 18:45:01 GMT -5
I know Agfa cameras are not worth a glance by many of the camera collecing fraternity, but optically & mechanically they were second to none of their peers.
Agreed, other than the Ambi Silette, lens interchangeability did not feature, but there are a few points that collectors should consider. I have many rangefinder cameras (far too many for my better half!) but the clearest rangefinder of the lot - absolutely positive & accurate is the Optima 500S. I don't like the automation much, but its a beautifully constructed camera.
The Agfa Super Silette (Solinar) is also similarly constructed - far better than say equivalent Baldas. (However I prefer the Balda's handling)
Then there is the creme de la creme - the modified Iloca electric - the Agfa Selecta M - a brute of a camera, but with the construction of a dreadnought.
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Aug 15, 2005 19:24:44 GMT -5
I'll agree about the relative build qualities of the Agfas and the Baldas. I picked up a couple of Balda Super Matics recently. One's in pieces at the moment because the brightline bits under the top plate suddenly fell apart and became dimline. Very cheap and cheerful when you get the top plate off. The other one's waiting to be taken apart because the Compur has decided it doesn't like me any more. Its slow speeds have gone on strike - not really Balda's fault I suppose, just anno domini and sticky oil. I do like the handling though, the half-turn key underneath for winding on works really well. When I first got them I couldn't get the rewind crank to open. I thought the little lever under the front was just a prop to hold the camera up - till I saw the T and R markings. Huh!
Peter
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Post by Just Plain Curt on Aug 21, 2005 20:09:25 GMT -5
I have 23 Agfas in Sillette and Optima styles. Many others as folders, box cameras etc. Good part of the drop in price lately is I can now buy the few I need to fill holes in my collection at a reasonable price.
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Post by camsterfactor on Aug 30, 2005 7:23:00 GMT -5
Agfa are high on my list of favourite camera families and I've enjoyed using the Isola I & II, Isoly Junior, II & III, Optima Sensor Electronic 1035 and 1535, Optima and Isolette. I'm sure current trends and favour affects the prices of these cameras - ie: lowered demand against supply - but often wonder what part is played by quality of supply itself. With eBay.de awash with Agfa gear and the fact that, in my experience at least, the proportion of broken to working cameras tend to be very low indeed, I presume many of these camera models will take a fair while yet to develop anything approaching a rarity value.
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Post by Rachel on Aug 30, 2005 16:28:31 GMT -5
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Aug 30, 2005 17:30:41 GMT -5
Hi Rachel,
I've got a Flexilette which I've had for about 15 years. It's such a beautifully engineered oddity that when I saw one in ex+ condition at an attractive price I couldn't resist it.
I must admit I don't use it all that much, as it's not the most convenient of cameras, nor the fastest, to use, but when I got used to its oddities I liked it. The Apotar lens takes lovely pictures. The shutter release is super-smooth and quiet, and with the waist-level viewfinder it's an ideal street shooter.
Peter
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Post by kiev4a on Oct 3, 2005 22:41:16 GMT -5
My first 35mm camera was an Ansco Super Memar, built by Agfa. I still have it. They don't bring much on the web--of course very few of the leaf shutter rangefinders seem to be very popular with collectors at this point.
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Post by heath on Oct 4, 2005 1:21:01 GMT -5
I have two Agfa's. One is a Sillette with the aforementioned Apotar lens and the other is a box camera of unknown vintage. All I know is it is very old and I cannot find another liek it anywhere on the WWW.
Heath
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Post by kamera on Oct 4, 2005 10:05:07 GMT -5
Wayne,
I have an excellent cosmetic Memar, but the shutter is caput. I have run across 3 in the last year at flea markets and the shutter has been broken in all cases; and they were a mess cosmetically.
Ron Head Kalamazoo, MI
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David Silver
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"Will work for antique cameras..."
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Post by David Silver on Oct 4, 2005 11:54:04 GMT -5
I've had zillions of Agfas over the years, and mostly enjoyed and appreciated them. For this category, among the highlights for me have been an Isolette III and a Super Isolette. Now neither of these have shown any significant drop in market value, even during the "market corrections" of 2001-2002, but both are quite uncommon. I feel the main issue in the current low valuations on the majority of the more common Agfa models is a direct connection to their extreme degree of success. In other words, they're cheap right now because they were so successful and there are so darn many available! Supply grossly outnumbers demand. Simple economics. And when the economy (in this case very much a world economy) is still moving out of a period of recession and correction, AND fewer people are involved in this field (I'm afraid we are a sort of dying breed), it's the common items that suffer the greatest decline in value. For people like us who respect even many of the more pedestrian Agfa models, it's a buyer's market and may never be this good again! Earlier this year I sold three different Agfaflex models on eBay (rather uncommon 35mm single-lens-reflex cameras from Agfa) in a night of auctions, and they each did very well, reaching prices consistent with established high "book" value. I don't think there's any lack of respect for Aga right now, I believe the market is still in the doldrums that started in 2001, but I see signs of recovery. In the meantime, if you're looking to buy, why wait?
Dave
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Post by paulatukcamera on Oct 5, 2005 10:00:51 GMT -5
Peter, in another thread you said you wanted to do a Silette exposition. Well here is my current collection of five Silettes and the closely related Optima (4). If you want any close up illustrations and haven't got that particular model, I can easily provide them
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Oct 5, 2005 11:08:19 GMT -5
Many thanks for the offer. I appreciate it but I've already got four or five Silettes lined up to take pics of. (yes I know I shouldn't end sentences with prepositions or start them with conjunctions and all that stuff - but what the heck?). If I should need any more I'll certainly get back to you.
I don't want to make my Silette piece too long and comprehensive so that it's more like a website than a Board posting. I want it to start a discussion and want people to share their experiences.
Peter
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