The way prices are going

[PeterW]

This morning I received from Auction Team Breker in Cologne, Germany, the beautifully illustrated catalogue of their next auction of cameras and photographica to be held on March 26.

No surprises in the suggested prices of top cameras such as Leica, nor in rare early cameras from the late 1800s and early 1900s. They are still way up, far too high for me. But there seems to be a quite significant drop in many other camera prices.

Whereas many of these used to be listed as separate items, quite a few are grouped in lots of from three to 14. For example, a lot of three Exaktas, a Varex VX, Varex IIb and a VX 1000 with eight lenses, a metered prism finder, extension tubes and what the catalogue describes as “more”. Starting bid of 100 Euros (US$ 139.50), and a suggested price of 200 to 300 Euros (US$ 279.14 to 418.71)

Or 13 Kodak folding Premo cameras from 1903 to 1918 plus a folding film pack Hawk-Eye, all described as working but not tested, with a starting bid of 200 Euros (US$ 279.14) and a suggested price of 350 to 400 Euros (US$ 488.50 to 558.00)

It makes you realise why European ebay sellers (or maybe that should be would-be sellers) who are still listing cameras with buy-it-now prices of a few years ago have so many of them unsold in the Completed Listings.

What did surprise me was a lot of 17 plastic snapshot cameras, all from the 1950s, with a starting bid of 160 Euros and a suggested price of 300 to 450 Euros (US$ 418.70 to 628.00). Maybe you’re on the right track, MIK, collecting those things.

Of course, you have to remember that the suggested price isn’t the hammer price, which could go much higher. You also have to remember that there’s a buyer’s premium of 19.3% of the hammer price, plus a 19% tax on the premium which brings it up to 22.97% of the hammer price. Many people forget that, just like they forget postage on ebay.

Interesting times in the camera collecting field. Unless I find must-have bargains in flea markets and car boot sales I think I’ll hold off buying for a while till prices bottom out.

PeterW

[photax]

Hi Peter !

I am watching the same thing over here. For the price of a vintage Leica special model, or a aerospace Nikon you also can buy a comfortable new car. Some months ago two NASA Nikons had been sold for 168.000.- EUR each and a Leica 250 GG for 180.000.- , but that’s unfortunately not my category. I will send you the link ( with winning bids ).
It seems that nobody wants to buy SLR`s from the 1960`s and 1970`s, you can have them at the lowest possible price at flea markets. Twenty years ago you found Bakelite cameras for almost nothing. I think the price increase of the Bakelite and plastic cameras from the 1930`s to the 1950`s is justified by the fact that most of them had been scraped over the years and not many survived, so they are rare now ( like the GDR-Kodak from Berlin ). Nobody threw a Leica away .
I visited a annual camera fair last week and was surprised about the prices there: From excessive expensive to astonishing cheap. Some sellers told me, that they had been there for the last time, they simply made no business, maybe blamed by the online auctions. But you cannot make a deal today asking for prices from the 1980`s. The advantage of this fairs: Nobody there is interested in “common” cameras, so you can find some bargains. I bought a almost mint 1930`s Lumiere Nada folder ( with case and cable release ) with snake-skin covering for 26.- EUR ( Mc Keown says 100.- to 150 .- USD ) and a cheap Leitz Leicina Super RT-1 movie camera ( with case and manual ), a numbered special edition with 1972 Olympic engravings. No one is interested in super 8 cameras today, maybe this will change in 10 years…
Exciting times for collecting ;D.

Here is the French Lumiere:



MIK

[daveh]

The price of cameras seems to me to be like many things second hand/used/collectible/antique in that it is somewhat arbitrary. In terms of the work expended in making a camera, most are undervalued, though some are overpriced, often for no logical reason other then the seller thinks someone will pay the asking price. As with antiques, today's junk might become tomorrow's collectible: or indeed today's collectible tomorrow's junk.

[Berndt]

Dave, well stated.

Plus ... often not sufficiently considered in price guides, the condition of a camera. I think, the price of a vintage camera ( if not ultra rare ) can be basically within a wide range ... and there are personal demands as well. If somebody just wants to put it in a showcase, he might want to look it just beautiful from outside, regardless if the shutter is not working perfectly anymore, etc. but if I really want to take pictures with it, a camera with a million pinholes in the bellows or a stucking shutter is just junk.

It is possible to make pretty good deals sometimes if knowing, what can be fixed on a camera quite easily and what not. For example, some sellers are stating a camera as junk, because the lens is not clean ... but especially on older cameras with simple lens constructions, the lens can be cleaned within a few minutes without any big effort.

And there are psychological issues. Best possible deals are always, if the seller doesn't know anything about cameras ( the classic grandfathers camera, found under the roof case ). Those people often don't say much about the cameras condition, because they simply don't know. Then it's a gamble, but many people refrain from bidding as well, so it might become a bargain.

Also temporary rareness can be a point. If there is just one Leica or Zeiss camera at the auction on a weekend, the price can rise incredibly high ( I WANT this one, because I don' know, when I can get the next ), but if there are many, people cool down.

Or local effects. For example, foreign vintage cameras are usually traded for a much higher price here in Japan than japanese ones ( especially the german makers ). It's a local market. E-Bay is forbidden here and only a very few people are capable of understanding English anyway ... and vintage cameras are heavy. High shipping costs, the fear of paying taxes, etc. etc.

What I also noticed is, that the prices between shops and auctions differ much. That's of course the case, because dealers usually buy at auctions and sell at shops, but here in Japan, the difference can be tremendeous. But here, I return to my first point. The dealers usually repair and refurbish everything before selling it again and they are masters in that. A Zeiss or Leica at an exclusive shop in Shinjuku or Ginza often really looks like new.

Funny story at the end. I once bought a 1941 Clover Six in perfect condition for about 10 USD, which I would consider as very cheap. Obviously nobody else found it at Yahooauctions ( the japanese E-Bay ), because the seller declared it as "Lover Six" ... hahaha ... misspellings are not rare here, because Japan is still not using our alphabet. They use "Katakana", characters which are immitating the sound of a word. As for an example, "Mc Donalds" is written here as "Ma-ku-ro-da-nu-ro". If you say "Mc Donalds", nobody would understand you ;-)

[belgiumreporter]

I've noticed over the years that prices not only of cameras but collectables of all sorts are spreading out to both sides of the money spectrum.
Real rare and valuable pieces go for incredible prices out of reach for most of us mortals. Investentment companys buy for instance a bunch of classic cars (no matter the high price) store them and try to find people who want to invest in the lot with the sole purpouse of selling them back again when the time is right to make a max profit, much more than money in the bank, same goes for fine paintings, design furniture and so on. This leaves us as "real" collectors (save some whealty exeptions) out of the ballpark because we can not afford the premium prices for the fine stuff.
Now on the other hand and back to photography, the aftermath of the digital revolution has reached it full extend and where some ten years ago film cameras were traded in for digitals for good prices  the market is now littraly flooded with good but common cameras. As an example for the drop in prices of those "mid range" collectable cameras i could tell you that some 6 years ago i've bought a canon A1 for my collection (not to use it) the price i've paid then was some 100 $ i thought it to be a good deal because the A1 still is a fine camera and a lot rarer than say the AE1. Today 2014 my camera sales man has 3 A1's on offer in price ranging from 30 to 50$ and nobody wants them ! The A1 wasn't the only camera i've paid to much, i guess i've miscalculated the flood that has now reached our camera shores that devaluated the price of most "classic" camera, even leica wich stood lonely at the top for collectibles gets a beating, maybe not the most popular like the M3, M4 and the really rare stuff, but for instance the R series are getting cheaper by the day. So where is this going to end ? can a perfect Cosina cs1 with 50mm 1.8 get any cheaper than 10$ or are we at an all time low from wich things can only get better ? i guess we can only hope for things to get better (unless your a Cosina collector who still needs a lot of cameras) but i won't make a prediction anymore.