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Post by mtnhiker on Nov 7, 2014 9:11:37 GMT -5
Hi,
I am new to Camera Collector so please forgive me if I have posted this message in the wrong place.
I was in a thrift store and came across a Retina IIIc and decided I had to get it if for no other reason than the beautiful precision engineering.
After getting it home it appears to be in reasonable working order. The light meter responds to light well (maxes out in sunlight, etc.). The shutter is very fast when it is supposed to be but is sluggish at slower speeds.
I started doing some research on it and now I want to actually get out and use it. I have had digital cameras for years but never really got the feel of actual photography (manual exposure, etc) since my DSLR does everything for me, and something about the simplicity of this camera called to me.
So here's my question - should I go ahead and pay someone for a CLA (just learned that acronym today!), and if so would you guys think it's better to find someone who really specializes in this camera and mail it to them or look around my town (Asheville) and see if an older camera shop could do it? Or is this something (just the Lubricate) I could do myself?
Finally what's a reasonable price for a CLA for this camera?
Thank you for any help,
Brett.
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Stephen
Lifetime Member
Still collecting.......
Posts: 2,718
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Post by Stephen on Nov 7, 2014 9:33:11 GMT -5
If every thing works, then work it without a film to free things up and try a film. Then see if attention is really needed.Basic shots at infinity will show if the lens is OK, and general shots in good light will reveal if the shutter is sound. Retina rarely need a full service, they were well made.
Servicing a shutter is not for the faint hearted, it is complex, but you can clean it out with solvents quite easily without too much dis-assembly.
I would leave well alone, unless it is bad.....cost vary wildly these days, as experience service on mechanical cameras is a dying art.
Stephen.
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Post by philbirch on Nov 7, 2014 11:28:44 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum. I agree with what Stephen is saying. Leave well alone if it appears to work otherwise.  If it is this camera here is a copy of the manual online to help you use it: Butkuss manuals right click and 'save target/link as' it will download the manual to your pc, or click on it to open it online. Read how to use the meter, then compare it against your digital camera. It sounds as if it may be ok but the camera is pushing 60 years old and selenium cell meters often don't work properly. If not you can use sunny 16 (you can google that!) or an app is available for your mobile. I use sunny 16 always with my old cameras, only relying on my app when its difficult to estimate. Good luck Phil |
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Post by paulhofseth on Nov 7, 2014 15:41:04 GMT -5
The compur shutters sometimes were revived just by operating them 10-50 times. Usually the faster speeds are OK, 1sec. particularly problematic. Cock the shutter, release and shake the camera about a bit if it does not start. Do the delay mechanism at the end. (V X M lever set to V= vorlaufwerk).
I vaguely remember that at least the IIc would not close unless distance was set at infinity, but the Butkus info should tell all. Do remember to leave some cash in his account.
The front element of the xenon\heligon comes off in order to acommodate the wide and tele front elements, but no point in dismantling unless it is urgantly needed for cleaning.
p.
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Post by olroy2044 on Nov 9, 2014 12:55:17 GMT -5
Hi, First, allow me to welcome you to the forum. We have a lot of fun, and there is a lot of experience and knowledge on tap. I don't own a Retina, but one is on my "want" list and has been for years. I haunt the local thrift stores just "knowing" that one day I will find one. This search has had the "un-intended" (r-i-g-h-t  ) consequence of greatly adding to the size of my collection!  Roy |
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retina
Senior Member
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Post by retina on Nov 9, 2014 21:47:10 GMT -5
G'day Brett, Welcome to the joy of owning a Retina. If you'd like to see what the inside of that shutter look like, and have a minute or two to waste, then watch this animation. retinarescue.com/shutter_assembly.htmlRegards, Chris Sherlock |
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Post by genazzano on Nov 10, 2014 1:22:40 GMT -5
An excellent site for those with Retina questions, Chris.
David
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Post by mtnhiker on Nov 10, 2014 9:50:45 GMT -5
Thanks for all the advice everybody. I'm going to start with Paul's advice and just work the mechanism a bit with no film, then shoot some inexpensive film to get started.
I'll report back on how it goes.
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Post by philbirch on Nov 10, 2014 15:36:48 GMT -5
A drop of Ronsonol does the trick too, I drip a little into the mechanism from the outside. Ronsonol or lighter fuel is the stuff you put in a Zippo - not a charcoal barbecue.
(Sometimes stuff gets lost in translation - it IS an international forum.)
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gben
Contributing Member
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Post by gben on Nov 21, 2014 9:17:10 GMT -5
mtn hiker, What drew you to your Retina Kodak was it's precision engineering, and I think to do it justice you need to have it maintained in the spirit with which it was manufactured. If you ever talk to an old watchmaker they will certainly tell you that using an old watch that has not been serviced for a decade or five decades will destroy it, precision German cameras are the same as old watches, if you use them with old or no lubricant in them, and whatever dirt has accumulated you will damage it. Squirting lighter fluid in the watch might free it up a bit, but it is not cleaning it or putting new oil in it, it is simply washing the dirt and old oil from one place to another, it is the move of a complete amateur. The Retina III specifically can destroy it's film advance mechanism when the old lubricant dries out and makes it harder to work, it puts an extra strain on an already marginal component. Find a cheap film camera to use until you find a REAL mechanic to overhaul your good camera. A real overhaul involves completely dismantling the camera, cleaning all old lubricant and particles out of it, then assembling it again with greases and oils similar to those used in doing the same to a fine mechanical watch. The smartest guy working on Kodak Retina cameras is this guy "down under", if you care about your camera you need to have someone like him or someone exactly like him help you with it, don't accept anything else: retinarescue.com/ |
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Stephen
Lifetime Member
Still collecting.......
Posts: 2,718
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Post by Stephen on Nov 23, 2014 12:36:40 GMT -5
You have to be a bit selective with lube on an old shutter, they were desined to run with little or no lubrication, or run dry. This caused no wear as cameras are not used that much. Focal plane shutters are different, they need oil on the shaft bearings and the gears.
With a leaf shutter the usual reason that they stop is grit and sand from beaches.
Second comes gumming from old oil, or the wrong oil being used in the past.
The gumming is best removed with pure alcohol or lighter petrol.
Sand and dust is best blown out with compressed air.
For lube I would suggest a modern oil like Nano oil or Labelle oil, both designed for gear mechanisms. Labelle never dries out, being silicon based, and Nano claims to have a different structure to the oil.They are coy about details, but it works fine.
An absolute minimum should be used, and none on the iris or shutter blades.
The pivots may have a trace added, but wiped away before assembly.
The gears in the speed trains are best left dry, but the bearings oiled. Oil may attract dirt to adhere to the gears.
The parts can be lubricated very lightly by immersion or application of the oil in diluted form, and wiped away leaving just a trace of lube.
Never use car oil or domestic oil, they will dry and gum up.
On servicing Japanese 1950/60's cameras, these were lubricated by the makers and time has shown they were wrong to have done it.
German makers went for no lube or dipping in a weak solution of oil in solvent before drying off and assembling.
One of two makers used watchmakers clock oil, some whale oil based, and not made anymore. Nano oil is the best replacement. Whale oil was used as it does not dry out.
Hope this helps,
Stephen.
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gben
Contributing Member
Posts: 12
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Post by gben on Dec 29, 2014 22:34:46 GMT -5
You have to be a bit selective with lube on an old shutter, they were desined to run with little or no lubrication, or run dry. This caused no wear as cameras are not used that much. Focal plane shutters are different, they need oil on the shaft bearings and the gears. With a leaf shutter the usual reason that they stop is grit and sand from beaches. Second comes gumming from old oil, or the wrong oil being used in the past. Back to the mechanical watch analogy, precision watches were also made to run with very little oil, it was put in very small amounts where it was needed, and oil in the wrong place would stop it or make it run poorly, just like a precision camera. Leaf shutters certainly have as many shafts, bearings and gears as any other camera and a real mechanic knows where to put the oil and where not to, just as a watchmaker does. Mechanical watches and cameras are still being manufactured, and so is specialty oil for use in their overhaul by the same manufacturers that have made it for decades. If anyone plans on actually using an old camera without making sure it is clean and has fresh lube in it then it will prematurely wear and damage itself just as if you run any machine without regular cleaning and lube changes. The most important thing to remember is that squirting solvent such a lighter fluid into a precision camera shutter or any precision instrument as a legitimate repair is something that only the ignorant and the amateur will promote. |
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Post by paulhofseth on Dec 30, 2014 10:53:53 GMT -5
Sensible lubrication advice.
My proposal above for rejuvenating slow speeds, by using them, is based on a user attitude rather than the white-glove approach.
I have used this method to rejuvenate a Rollei 35 and a Retina IIc that had beeen resting too long (not seized up due to grit), but since then they were not used for more than perhaps 20 films each. For the past few years they have been resting again. To do precision mechanics justice and ensure long life I agree that shutters should be professionally cleaned.
p.
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Post by Just Plain Curt on Dec 31, 2014 7:30:43 GMT -5
The only pearl of wisdom I can offer is PLEASE till you get a CLA, DON'T use the self timer. I can't begin to tell you how many "I tried the timer and now the camera shutter is jammed" stories I've read in twenty plus years now. Almost nobody used them regularly so the lubricant is like the Labrea tar pits.
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) consequence of greatly adding to the size of my collection! 
