der84
Senior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by der84 on May 14, 2015 10:42:34 GMT -5
Here's a rather random question......mainly for curiosity.
So I don't have a Mckeown's book yet, but I took a peek at a couple of pages of one on the web. As we all know Mckeown's shows different cameras and the value that they could be currently worth. I noticed though, that it doesn't state (from what I've seen) how much a camera might be worth, if you found one with it's original box, or original box and paperwork/manual.
So my question is. How much value, does an original box or original box and paperwork/manual give a camera?
Yes, I'm aware of the Mckeown's Law that states "The price of an antique camera is entirely dependent upon the moods of the buyer and seller at the time of the transaction". But, as I mentioned, mainly just out interest/curiosity that I am asking this.
Thanks Derek
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Stephen
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Still collecting.......
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Post by Stephen on May 14, 2015 11:23:37 GMT -5
It aways pays to have a mint, unused, still wrapped camera with all paperwork! The nearer to that is always going to fetch more at any auction or sale. The box is very desirable indeed, even if a bit worn, next is the paperwork, and supplied parts like original lens caps. Overall, perhaps a 20% premium on the price of overwise identical cameras. If the camera is already rare, like an Ilford Witness, then finding a boxed one, with the manual etc., would double or more, the auction price.
Stephen.
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der84
Senior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by der84 on May 14, 2015 12:40:02 GMT -5
It aways pays to have a mint, unused, still wrapped camera with all paperwork! The nearer to that is always going to fetch more at any auction or sale. The box is very desirable indeed, even if a bit worn, next is the paperwork, and supplied parts like original lens caps. Overall, perhaps a 20% premium on the price of overwise identical cameras. If the camera is already rare, like an Ilford Witness, then finding a boxed one, with the manual etc., would double or more, the auction price. Stephen. Well, none of mine are in their original, unwrapped packaging. But I do have quite a few that have their original boxes and some with their manuals/paperwork too....so I was just curious. Thanks Stephen.
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Post by belgiumreporter on May 14, 2015 13:57:48 GMT -5
I don't think there's a clear rule in value of boxed camera's. Yes they are worth more but just how much depends a lot on what camera it is. For example i've got a mint boxed with paperwork and whatnot mamiya 500 dtl. it is worth nothing without the box and it's worth nothing with the box (nomatter what McKeowns says) on the other hand a nikon F2 As in good condition is worth some 600€ i've seen the same camera all Original and boxed sold for 1500€ now that's 900 € for a cardboard box some fiiler foam and a booklet, but obviously somebody was willing to pay for it.About asking prices you have to be aware that soime dealers ask silly high prices for some items just to speculate if someone is desperate enough to buy it, a good example here is a respectable classic leica dealer has a beauty (japanese make of camera) in his inventory asking price 350€ it comes witth a whole story just about how special this camera is, but i've bought exactly the same in a not so exlusive second hand camera store for 20€ wich i think is about the right price for it as i've bought several more for about the same amount of money. If i want to know the value of an item i allways check on various auction sites to see how much a particular item was SOLD, not what price people are asking. This gives a general good idea of the current value of an item. Catalogues like McKeowns more than often over or undervalue certain items, this dosn't only happen with camera's but with all collactibles in general. The only problem with this technique might be that you can't find any price reference on some of the more rare items and in this case they are mostly worth "what a fool is willing to pay "
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 13:58:37 GMT -5
Bottom line is, no mater how much packaging and paperwork you have, it has to be a relatively rare film camera to fetch much. There may come a time when they will be worth something but right now they run neck and neck with manual typewriters, price-wise. If you collect cameras it should be for the joy of collecting, not thought of making money.
W.
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Post by philbirch on May 14, 2015 15:54:30 GMT -5
I think If I were buying one I'd pay that bit extra for one with a box and papers than one without. It would make yours, if you should want to sell it, that more desirable. I think Stephens 20% is a fair assessment. For mass produced cameras like Kodak Instamatics or later Zenits, I think it wouldn't make much difference but for expensive 'marque' cameras or very old ones the 20% will be right.
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der84
Senior Member
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Post by der84 on May 14, 2015 19:27:11 GMT -5
Thanks for all the responses everyone. But just to clarify so there is no misunderstanding. This was just for curiosity purposes. As Wayne put it, one should collect for the love of the cameras and not just for the value. I agree with this fully and have no thoughts of ever selling my collection. I was just curious to see how much of a difference it would make.
Derek
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Post by philbirch on May 15, 2015 17:07:52 GMT -5
I'd go for one with box and documents any day over one without.
I didn't think you were asking about the value with a view to maximising profit. I think though tht the value of individual pieces in our collection is always on our mind. We wont be here forever and value is what our loved ones may think of when we're gone...
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on May 16, 2015 8:09:50 GMT -5
A Brownie 2 Box Preserved by meticulous stitching along severed joints by an unknown seamstress and some white glue touch up at others by me. Before seeing this I never realized that Brownie had a moustache. It probably adds no monetary value to the camera but does provide a little colourful interest. Mickey
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Post by rickoleson on May 20, 2015 20:33:17 GMT -5
It really depends on the camera. Personally, I'll pay a bit extra for the box with an older camera, and of course if it's a Leica or Contax it will shoot way up; and I like the boxes and 'passports' with Russian cameras - but I'm not likely to pay extra to get the box with a Pentax from the 70s.
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Post by philbirch on May 21, 2015 13:33:58 GMT -5
Hear hear
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on May 21, 2015 14:57:58 GMT -5
It's only the classic period cameras that boxes make a real difference in price or collectability, a mundane Kodak folder is transformed by the original box, instructions and sales brochure for acccesories. A Reid with all the trimmings may double it's value at a real auction, but not so much on Ebay.
Stephen.
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Post by yashica1943 on May 22, 2015 4:06:18 GMT -5
I think that a camera and or accessories with their original box and paperwork is preferable to those without. It might mean that the seller is the original owner, it also might show that the seller is tidy, careful and methodical and has kept the box and instructions in a safe place. I have a Voigtlander Vito B with the original instructions and warranty card, I will never sell it, but I would expect the extras to add value if I did. I have just bought a 'used' Nikon F80 body with no batteries, from a charity shop, 40 miles from home, with no option of taking it back. The original box, liners, instructions, warranty card were all immaculate as was the camera which had its body cap. If the body was not with the box and papers then I probably would not have taken the chance.
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Post by lesdmess on May 22, 2015 13:43:12 GMT -5
If you collect cameras it should be for the joy of collecting, not thought of making money. W. Although it raises the prices for me - someone who actually uses film cameras, I don't see any reason why not. I have seen some empty boxes sell for a few bucks so they must increase the selling price by some margin.
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on May 22, 2015 14:22:14 GMT -5
The trouble with boxes, and I will not refuse one as they add colour to the usual black and chrome displays, is the precious shelf space they occupy.
I do not expect any monetary increase over an unboxed camera.
I go along with Wayne's wise collecting philosophy. When I look at any camera in my collection I do not see dollar signs. I see a remarkably ingenious example of human creativity. Even the ugly ones.
Mickey
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