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Zorki 4
Mar 1, 2006 17:57:28 GMT -5
Post by John Parry on Mar 1, 2006 17:57:28 GMT -5
Thought you'd been quiet Scott. Remember to dip in from time to time !
Regards - John
ps Minus 6 tonight - pretty chilly for the place where the Gulf Stream ends up!!
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Zorki 4
Mar 1, 2006 19:46:30 GMT -5
Post by Just Plain Curt on Mar 1, 2006 19:46:30 GMT -5
Hopefully this works. third time's the charm I guess. and and The smaller monument shot was done with the Industar n61 55 f2.8, second monument shot with the Jupiter 8 50mm f2 and the tree shot is with the Industar 50mm f3.5 . All shot at 1/250 f16 for equal comparison, not really fair as most lenses look similar closed down but for hand held shots with a metal camera (no case so no strap lugs) on a cold day, shot in 1 hour wrestling a 105 lb. dog for dominance they turned out ok. Guess I didn't screw the focus up too badly on the Industar with my tinkering.
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Post by Microdad on Mar 2, 2006 1:49:32 GMT -5
I don't have any FSU cam's but was eyeing a Kiev not long ago. I'm curious as to how they compare with Zorki's (and others) as far as price, quality, availability of accessories, etc.
Steve
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Post by Just Plain Curt on Mar 2, 2006 9:39:52 GMT -5
Hi Steve, I believe Wayne, Ron Herron or Peter could answer this a bit better but for my two cents here goes. Feds seem cheapest both in purchase price and build quality. Next would be Zorki/Mir followed by Kiev at the high end for price. Iskras are great too but overpriced at least for me. You'll find more accessories and lenses for Feds or Zorkis because they use the Leica thread/M39 screw mount where the Kiev uses Contax mount. I've also found the shutter assembly in the Kiev while prettier in design to be a lot more fragile than the shutter of the others. Hope this helps. If you prefer there are also a good mix of folks at BestStuff.com Russian camera group, Yahoo, etc.
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Zorki 4
Mar 2, 2006 10:52:21 GMT -5
Post by kiev4a on Mar 2, 2006 10:52:21 GMT -5
The Russians seemed to consider the Kievs the "professional" camera of the three brands but that doesn't tell the entire story since toward the end of the Kiev production runs quality control became really sloppy. FED started it all and the FED 1s and Zorki 1s (true Leica II copies) are, for the most part, well made. But they are old enough now that if they haven't been serviced the shutter curtains can be a problem -- cracks, detachment, etc.
FED 2 are nice cameras and aren't bottom loaders so you don't have to cut special film leaders for them. Their viewfinders are a little dim compared to the Zorki 3s and 4s from the same period. The FEDs may not be as smooth and sophisticated as the Zorkies but they are very durable. The odds of getting a working FED directly from a FSU seller is better than getting a working Zorki, imho.
The Zorki 3M, 3C and 4 series are good cameras. For a shooter I would stay away from the original Zork 3 (with a slow speed dial on the front). They have more problems.
The Zorki C and 2C are nice cameras (but ugly) and they are bottom loaders. But you can get 'em for almost nothing. The Zorki 5 also is a bottom loader and the early ones had mechanical problems (the ones with red lettering).
Best buys for shooters are the Zorki 4K (lever wind) and the Zorki 6 which is the only LTM Soviet camera with a hinged back. The Z6 doesn't have the really slow shutter speeds but few people use them anyway and they increase the mechanical problems.
I readily admit that although I have a couple of Kievs I'm not a big fan. They are complicated to fix, the quality varies and there aren't as many lenses available. I also have trouble blocking the rangefinder window with my finger because of the Contax-style focusing wheel. Some people swear by them, however.
My favorites are the Zorki and FED 1s with the 35mm jupiter 12 lens and shoe finder, the FED 3A (knob wind), the early Zorki 4 (1956-1960) and the Zorki 6.
The last FED model-- the FED 5, can still be found new in the box for almost nothing. The FED 5 is rally a pretty decent camera but quality control was an issue in that model. But for what you pay for one it won't kill you if it's not perfect.
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Zorki 4
Mar 2, 2006 14:29:44 GMT -5
Post by herron on Mar 2, 2006 14:29:44 GMT -5
I can pretty much echo Wayne's comments. Except I never cared for the look of the Zorki 6 (or Zorki 5), or the FED 5 (or the FED 3 or 4), for that matter. Maybe it's that more "squared off" look of the top plate. I got interested in them at all for the look of the early models...and I bought them long enough ago that eBay had not sent the prices up the least little bit! I also like the MIR, which is similar to the Z4, but without the slow speeds...and the Zarya, which, in some ways, is similar to the FED-2 but with a totally different stylistic look that I find appealing. The Kiev's are nice, but I can definitely defer to Wayne on them. I only have one, but I hate to work on it (and it seems like I always am), and I am constantly wishing I was left-handed when I use it! mamiya35collectors.com/russian.htm
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Zorki 4
Mar 2, 2006 15:55:40 GMT -5
Post by kiev4a on Mar 2, 2006 15:55:40 GMT -5
Only problem with the Zarya is it doesn't have a rangefinder--just a Newton finder. You have to zone focus which can be tricky with a 50mm lens at large apertures. I also like my Mir which allegedly one of the most reliable FSU cameras. I tended to have the same attitude as you about the later FEDs but after getting several they kinda grew on me. I probably would like the Kievs more if I didn't have a Contax II which is a sweetheart (except for the rangefinder). One of my Kievs has a slight light leak in the back (a very common problem). The other spaces the negatives about half an inch apart (also not that unusual) And it's not an improper takeup spool--already checked that.
Of course there are other FSU rangefiners. The Droug (Drug) has a trigger wind on the bottom and the Leningrad has a spring wound motor. A lot of people have them but I'm not sure I've ever seen a picture taken with either camera--they are pretty much "just for show, not for go." I had a Leningrad but was told that the viewfinder (one of the best on an FSU camera) is likely to crumble if the camera is used much. It also take about 15 minutes to load a 'Grad."
One thing to beware of on all FSU RFs if you wear glasses--especially if they have plastic lenses. The metal rings around the viewfinder eyepiec will scratch the heck out of you glasses lenses. The FED 1 and ZORKI 1 are particularly bad. That's why I usuall shoot mine with the J12 and a finder on the accessory shoe.
My only problem with the Zorki 6 is nearly all of them came with the rigid I-50 3.5 lens. Remove the I-50, replace it with a Jupiter 8 f2 or the Jupiter 12 and you have a cool looking rig.
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PeterW
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Zorki 4
Mar 2, 2006 17:32:21 GMT -5
Post by PeterW on Mar 2, 2006 17:32:21 GMT -5
Hi Curt, You wrote: . Some time ago I had the rigid Industar 50 from my Zenit C apart to clean the glass and regrease the helicoid. It's not a difficult lens to take apart, and you shouldn't have any problem getting the front element back in the correct position, and you can adjust the scale focus to agree with the actual focus at ininity using the method I outlined some time ago in Workbench. I seem to remember you said you printed out a copy, so you should have it somewhere. If not, it's still on the Board in Workbench under 'setting a lens at infinity'. I couldn't, of course, use that method on the Zenit C because it's a bottom loader and you can't see the film plane, so I had to fake up an M39 extension tube and some shims to fit the lens at its correct lens to film plane distance on a Zorki 4. Bit of a fiddle, but it worked OK. Of course, if I'd waited a little longer till I got a Zenit 3M, which does have a hinged back, I could have saved myself a lot of hassle! . With regard to the f stop setting, I found when I took it apart that the aperture just cleared the lens opening at f/3.5 on the scale, so that's how I put it back. Seems to work OK with that setting. Peter
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Zorki 4
Mar 2, 2006 19:38:31 GMT -5
Post by Just Plain Curt on Mar 2, 2006 19:38:31 GMT -5
Doh, thanks Peter. Glad one of us has his head screwed on properly. Your notes were in the binder to the left of my computer the whole time I had the Industar apart. Just once I wish I'd read the directions before diving into a project head first. A red faced Curt humbly hangs his head in shame, LOL.
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Mar 3, 2006 8:16:38 GMT -5
Curt, If you want to see a feature on dismantling an Industar have a look at Tom Piel's website www.xs4all.nl/~tomtiger/On the left look for Zenit repair project. Scroll down that page and you'll find Cleaning and Relubricating a Lens. Tom uses the Industar 50 as an example. There's also a load of other good stuff about Zorkis and Zenits and other Russian cameras on this site. Tom is the owner of the Zenit Collectors Group on Yahoo. His knowledge of Russian cameras is pretty wide. Peter
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Zorki 4
Mar 3, 2006 10:28:03 GMT -5
Post by herron on Mar 3, 2006 10:28:03 GMT -5
Wow! What a neat site! Amazing that I have never stumbled across it in all my zorki-zenit-fed-russian camera surfing! Tom has quite a sense of humor, too! I already know I will spend a great deal of time there! (my wife would send you hate-mail, if she knew, but I won't tell her where I found the URL)...
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Zorki 4
Mar 3, 2006 11:59:45 GMT -5
Post by paulatukcamera on Mar 3, 2006 11:59:45 GMT -5
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Zorki 4
Mar 3, 2006 12:07:51 GMT -5
Post by kiev4a on Mar 3, 2006 12:07:51 GMT -5
Tom Tiger is a real Photo Snaiper fan (it uses the Zenit camera). Nice guy. Likes cats, too.
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PeterW
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Zorki 4
Mar 3, 2006 14:16:27 GMT -5
Post by PeterW on Mar 3, 2006 14:16:27 GMT -5
I don't know if anyone noticed, but Tom has 'instant check back' for visitors to his site. For example, a little box pops up noting that I'm using ntl as my ISP, that I'm running Windows XP and using Internet Explorer 6. I don't know for sure, but I would suspect that anyone Tom has banned just doesn't get any further. He also has a pet hate about what he calls 'deep linking'. In other words, don't post a link to one of the pages, only to the home page.
I believe Tom does all his own programming (I think he teaches it at a college in Holland) and wrote his website in raw HTML code and Java script, running on Linux.
He and I had a few email discussions about this a couple of years back, but after a trial I chickened out and used a program generator even though I modify the code it generates sometimes. Tom's very knowledgeable in a lot of ways, as well as being a nice guy.
He is also very strict in running the Zenit Collectors Group, and quite ruthless on occasion with people who blantantly transgress what he calls 'Tom's Laws', which he reminds people about every month or so.
Well, he has to run a tight ship with over 1000 members across the world, a few of whom have got a bit uptight in past years.
Peter
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PeterW
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Zorki 4
Mar 3, 2006 15:20:25 GMT -5
Post by PeterW on Mar 3, 2006 15:20:25 GMT -5
Ron, I take it you've come across Jim Blazik and Steve Rosenbach's site Rangefinder Cameras of the Soviet Era ? If not, give it try at www.geocities.com/fzorkis/index.htmlJim Blazik's repaints and recreations are legendary, and talk about a sense of humour! Well, see for yourself. Peter
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