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Post by nikkortorokkor on Oct 1, 2007 23:35:32 GMT -5
I'm overwhelmed by the vote of confidence for 'Going to Market'. The truth is, I've shot myself in the foot somewhat, since that image would be one of my personal favourites too; it may all go downhill from here! The story behind the photo is that I was riding my bicycle to work when I saw this guy coming the other way. It may look like he's on a narrow path, but in fact we were on a brand new 6 lane highway built to service a new education precinct on the edge of the city. The old gent stopped to pull off his sweater and I screeched to a halt too, unshipped the digital, jammed it to full zoom (300mm) and waited. It is unusual to see the old wheelbarrow being used now, and I was desperate for a shot. Of the 3 or 4 images I made, this was definitely the most pleasing. Here are some more from the same stretch of road, probably on the same day. None are quite as effective as the photogenic gent with his barrow, but they give a feel for the mix of tradition and breakneck development in a Chinese city. The muted tones come from the mix of haze and smog that accompanies China's own industrial revolution. Building the Dream. By the time I left China a few weeks later, the planting of the central reservation was almost complete. This road went from a dirt track to a highway in just a few short months. Builders of the Dream. One of the joys of working in the new precinct was cycling to work surrounded by building site labourers. There wasn't much motorized traffic on this new road, and sometimes all you could hear was the gentle chirp, grind and squeak of dozens of badly maintained bicycles. Mum & Dad sporting the hard hats are riding a wee electric moped and giving a much appreciated tow to their buddy. The shot isn't composed too well, with the subject slap in the middle of the frame. My excuse is that I was riding my own bike behind them when I made the picture! Going Home. Another gentleman from the villages, this time heading home from the city. Ready to Go. I like this guy's heroic pose, he could be a poster boy for the revolution. A moment later, he threw himself into the task of hauling the loaded trike across the intersection. He didn't ride it, but used it as a 3 wheeled barrow. Most of these people, the backbone of China's economic miracle, earn about 10 Yuan (US$1.33) per day.
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Post by olroy2044 on Oct 2, 2007 0:22:46 GMT -5
"Going Home"----Awesome, Roy
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Post by herron on Oct 2, 2007 11:42:54 GMT -5
Michael: Fascinating images. Right out of National Geo...no lie!
"Going Home" and "Ready to Go" are my personal favorites. It looks as though the colors are a bit washed out, though....but that could be my monitor....I'll look at them again at home tonight to compare. Still, they are marvelous!
I was in China (Beijing and Shanghai) for a few weeks in 1986. Have some slides from the trip somewhere (?). I was a little worried about the trip before I went...no one I knew had been to China in 1986! But it was a fascinating trip, and I found the people tremendously friendly, and just as curious about me!
I also remember all the bicycles! I imagine things have changed tremendously in 21 years. I would really like to go back, just to see!
In Shanghai, I was staying at a guest house compound, about 30-40 minutes outside of the city. On my last day, the guest house arranged for a cab to take me back into downtown Shanghai to get an item my wife wanted that they did not have at the Friendship Stores we had been taken to. The cabbie spoke no English, so the guest house concierge wrote the directions for him on a matchbook...along with instructions to wait for me, and bring me back!
I prepaid for the cab, and went into the city. The cabbie parked and waited with me for the store to open (interesting interlude...he spoke no English, I knew no Chinese). I tried to get him to take me somewhere where I could buy him a cup of tea while we waited (I really wanted coffee), but he misunderstood and offered me a cigarette instead.
The store finally opened and I bought the item with the last of the Foreign Exchange Certificates they gave you when you exchanged money (I used the only ones I had left, except for the amount it was going to take me to pay the departure fees at the airport).
But the store owner had only renminbi (the local currency) to give me change with, which I could not exchange back at the airport. I tried to leave the change with the storeowner, but he would have none of it, insisting it was mine, and I must take it...about 60 Yuan.
When I got back to the guest house, just in time to board a bus arranged to take our group to the airport, I decided to give the renminbi to the cabbie. I couldn't exchange it, so it was useless paper to me, and I was sure he could use it. The cabbie didn't want to take it at first, and looked around very nervously before he did. And then he thanked me profusely. It was only later, when I had time to think about it, that I realized how much that must have been, in his terms!
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Post by kiev4a on Oct 2, 2007 13:17:13 GMT -5
The pictures look a little light on my monitor, too, but the subject matter is awesome.
We are hoping to go to China next year.
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mickeyobe
Lifetime Member
Resident President
Posts: 7,280
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Post by mickeyobe on Oct 2, 2007 15:07:05 GMT -5
As with your previous archive pictures these are truly memorable.
I think the pastel shades add a great deal to them and they seem quite natural. I presume the atmospheric haze noticeable in most of the pictures causes the beautiful muted tones.
Mickey
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Post by herron on Oct 2, 2007 16:30:11 GMT -5
The pictures look a little light on my monitor, too, but the subject matter is awesome. We are hoping to go to China next year. Wayne: I think you will find it a fabulous trip (but the plane ride is a bit much)! You would at least have the advantage of starting quite a few flying hours west of me! It doesn't seem at all like 21 years since we were there... it affected us so much (in a positive way)! I'm going to see if I can't find some of those old slides to post (Ektachrome, if I remember correctly after all this time)..........
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Post by nikkortorokkor on Oct 3, 2007 6:07:05 GMT -5
I think that you're all on the button with the comments about lightness: don't feel any burden to adjust your monitors. Having owned the Oly (a Camedia c-750 Ultra Zoom) for about four years now, I've noticed a tendency to over expose. I usually exposure comp by -0.7 to -1 stop these days to achieve better saturation. On the other hand, the east Asian haze really is as bad as it appears. Whenever I return to New Zealand (which has particularly 'hard' light) or even Australia from Asia I feel like I'm walking into a Velvia slide show. Suddenly the real world has colour and contrast again. Visibility in the area where the above pictures were taken is often under 1 kilometre. There was a steel mill in the vicinity, and I often joked that it was a clear day if I could actually see the sulphur cloud pouring from the smoke stack. I'm looking forward to seeing your slides Ron, China in the nineteen eighties was a different world again. All I have to go on are my wife's reminiscences, many of which are hair raising given that the enforcers of the Revolution had deemed her to be Landlord Capitalist class. She would probably have lived for a month or more on that 60 Yuan that you gave the cab driver. As it was, she got her way through varsity on the money she earned by being a middle distance runner for her school. East and West aren't so different after all. I can only join Ron's recommendation to visit China. Though big city cabbies are getting more worldly, Chinese in general remain kind, if VERY curious (outside Beijing, Shanghai Guangzhou and Shenzhen, which are becoming more sophisticated by the day). The country is a street shooters dream since, as one photog put it, life in China is all out on the street. A few more images before you all get too tired. Street Cobbler. He worked every day outside a small industrial college that I taught at. My colleague (a Canadian) made a much better photo, an informal portrait with this wonderful man looking straight at the camera, a merry twinkle in his eye. These guys do good work, using strong, thin nylon catgut for thread. I still have a baseball cap and a bag repaired by my local street cobbler 4 years ago. Captains of Industry. These guys ran a sheet steel shop in the steel precinct. Business is obviously booming. Making a Deal. Chinese students, like students everywhere, are perennially short of cash. This pair are buying food at a small market near the university. I like the intense concentration of the small girl in the gorgeous red jacket. The picture would be nothing without her. Keeping Him Honest This was a taken in a large, open air market that occupied several streets in a housing project. I was fighting the evening light, but this one turned out a keeper. In case you don't pick it up, the young vendor is using traditional scales to weigh the produce. Never try to rip off a wily senior! Serenity The smaller market again. There is a kindness in this woman's face that breaks my heart every time I look at it. My focus is a little soft, but I think that the subject overcomes the technical shortcomings. I always remember Capa's book title: 'Slightly Out of Focus' when I want excuses! Which is probably a good place for me to stop being self-indulgent and get on with some 'real' work. Thank you all for the kind feedback. You give me the courage to make more photographs when we return to China (planned departure date is late 2009, when our daughter will have finished high school). In the meantime, back to camera collecting. I've been on a binge again and am keenly awaiting the delivery of a Hi Matic 7, a Hi Matic AF2 (with manual winding and two step AF - a potentially useful, cheap street shooter) and a Yashica 44. I don't reckon I'll find film fior THAT in China!
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Post by herron on Oct 3, 2007 9:43:44 GMT -5
Michael: Thanks for sharing these images. Good "street photography" captures the essence of daily life, and these have certainly done that and more. Fascinating images of a fascinating place. China in 1986 certainly was different, if you can now call any of it "sophisticated." Beijing has an enormous boulevard that runs right in front of Forbidden City and Tienamen Square. My wife and I would walk from the Square or from the American Embassy, which was a bit east, if I recall, back to our hotel at all hours of the day and night. Yet we seldom saw a car on it. Thousands upon thousands of bicycles, but no cars. And the people in the cities, for the most part, were all still dressed alike in the blue, Mao-approved "Revolution" clothes that gave any street scene a decidely surreal feeling. We did not see crowds on the streets at night, although a lot of the vendors that lined the roadway were actually sleeping in their tent "establishments." We did draw a crowd ourselves one night that I will always remember. It was the fourth of July, and we had been to a street party on the grounds of the American Embassy. We left about 11:00 at night. Not knowing how to call a cab (or even if there was one) we decided to walk back to our hotel. We felt a little funny at first, knowing there were plenty of cities in American states where we would not walk unknown streets at that hour of the night. H*ll, who am I kidding? There are places in Detroit I wouldn't approach with the sun still up! We had walked quite a distance when we were approached in the dark by what turned out to be two street vendors, with original sketches on rice paper, and paintings on silk, draped over their arms like carpet samples. They spoke no English, and our Chinese vocabulary was limited to please, thank you, hospital and police...not all that good for price discussions. Still, the vendors were able to make known the prices they wanted, and we haggled with them (the drawings and paintings were actually quite good). The younger man, who had the sketches, seemed willing to come down in price, but the older gentleman (who looked to me like every stereotype I had ever envisioned of an elderly Chinaman, right down to the long, long, white goatee) would have none of it. It was his price, or nothing. Before we knew it, a large crowd had gathered around us, and someone actually produced a flashlight, so we could see the items better. Then, a voice in the crowd, coming from a young man who looked a bit like your cyclist in the blue shirt in " Ready to Go" said, in perfect English "He's asking too much. You can get the same at a gallery tomorrow for less." We had just about decided to walk away when my wife said "But we don't know if we'll even have time to go to a gallery tomorrow, even if we knew where one was! We're leaving for Shanghai!" So, we lingered a moment, and paid the elderly man's price for a couple of ink sketches and one lovely painting on silk. And then, just as quickly as it formed, the crowd disappeared back into the night as the old man beamed. Gotta find those slides!
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Post by olroy2044 on Oct 3, 2007 12:02:45 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this series! I've enjoyed them all! Roy
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Post by kiev4a on Oct 3, 2007 14:26:22 GMT -5
We discovered the Chambers of Commerce in several U.S. cities host trips to China annually. I'm suspicious the Chinese Govt. subsidizes them because the cost is unbelievably low. A friend of our's is on such a trip now so we are waiting for her report to find out if it is a great a deal as it seems. I'm wondering if the Summer Olympics might compromise such tours next year.
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Post by nikkortorokkor on Oct 3, 2007 16:03:03 GMT -5
As someone who has grown professionally suspicious of Olympianism and the 'benefits' of winning an Olympic bid, I'm approaching 2008 with mixed feelings. If, however, you find the prices still good in '08, the chamber of commerce trips sound like an ideal introduction.
The crowds still gather to watch a Lao Wai (respected outsider) trying to bargain. I have to admit that the innovation of a WalMart in Nanchang (WalMart is very successful in China) was a boon. The markets are colourful for photography and great for groceries, tools and pirated DVDs, but sometimes the stress-free buying in a cash and carry was a salve to jangled nerves. Very different from the Friendship Store days when Ray was in China. Having said that, I'll be looking for a Great Wall 6x6 SLR when I get back. The one Friendship Store that I did find still operating had a Phenix 205 rangefinder proudly displayed in its glass case.
The stress of bargaining was not relieved by the habit of my Chinese friends, family and colleagues of asking 'How much?' Every time I showed a new purchase. In the end, though, I did learn to bargain. My standard line was 'My wife will beat me if I don't get a better price.' It always elicited smiles (some of knowing sympathy) and a lowered price.
If the chamber of commerce trip doesn't pan out, there are plenty of adventure tourism companies that offer less run-of-the-mill packages to China. And, of course, photographic tours are regularly advertised. As someone who has always travelled independently, I'd still recommend the better tour operators. China remains huge and, to be frank, difficult. By working in the country I had friends, colleagues, clients and eventually, family to help me out when things got confusing. Without my wife to translate, for example, I would have lost a perfectly good tooth to an overzealous dentist! . A good tour guide will perform this role and make your trip more enjoyable. On the other hand, being alone on the bus or train surrounded by dozens of people with whom I didn't share a common language taught me much about relying on the kindness of strangers. Anybody remotely interested in railways should take a train trip 'hard sleeper' (i.e. second class) in China. It's a real community on wheels.
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Post by kiev4a on Oct 3, 2007 17:54:45 GMT -5
I wouldn't want to go for the Olympics. We want to go to see China.
My wife loves to bargain. If she goes to Mexico with a group she gets the same things for at least 25 percent than anyone else on the tour. She didn't speak Spanish, either.
Are there any restricted travel areas in China?
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Post by herron on Oct 3, 2007 19:31:26 GMT -5
I'd love to know the answer to that, too! I'd like to go back (my wife is not so sure)...but not during the Olympics. Lots of things were restricted when I was there in '86. And there were no Walmarts or McDonald's, either (which I understand there are now). No American or European stores of any kind that I saw. Just the Friendship Stores...where the wares were not that good (although better than most local stores), and the help.......wasn't. Oh, they were friendly enough, just not very motivated to provide any support. Ron BTW -- I just heard that an airline (I don't recall which one) is planning a non-stop Detroit to Beijing flight next year. Must be all those GM-folks flying back and forth! I understand Buick is selling better in China than it does in the States!
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Post by nikkortorokkor on Oct 3, 2007 23:32:36 GMT -5
GM was smart, Volkswagon too. Cherokees and VW Siroccos and Audi A5s all popular, made in China cars.
Travel Restrictions can come into play around military bases and in 'sensitive' areas such as Tibet. In the case of the latter, you CAN travel there, but need a pass to visit certain areas, which is issued to travel groups rather than individuals. So, you can see this as a rort (with backhanders involved) rather than a true restriction.
In other cases, such as an historic village in Anhui, no way Jose! I met some foreign workers who snuck into that tourist village and ended up cooling their heels in the local clink, being interrogated by the area commander for 4 hours. Restrictions are usually annoying and a bit galling rather than truly inconvenient. Nothing like they once were. Sometimes I think they are a bit of an 'up you, this is our country' statement, and as such, I have a grudging respect for them.
The other cause of restrictions is fear of danger to visitors, which would cause terrible loss of face to Chinese officials. Sometimes people will restrict your movement simply because of perceived risk (usually imaginary). Mostly this shouldn't affect visitors as much as it does expats living on campuses and gated compounds..
To put this into perspective, in over two years of living in China, I was stopped from visiting one village and prevented from staying in one hotel (once upon a time this was a major main in the a*s). Generally most hotels will accept your money, the only problem being them wanting to take double the cash they should off you. Sometimes Guiping (my wife) would book the room while I hid around the corner. Bargaining was always harder if they spotted a laowai!
On the other hand, lots of wee hotels charged perfectly reasonable rates regardless of the colour of my skin, and in areas where I was being truly fleeced, so were Chinese tourists. Food and drink in tourist areas is comparatively expensive for everyone. This stems partially from the fact that many visitors are in packages organized by their Dangwei (work unit). My wife (a university professor) had not really paid herself for hotel rooms until she and I started travelling as a couple. Before that, she always travelled as part of a junket and rooms were booked by the unit leader. Thus, the locals figure why not get their snout in the public trough too, since no one is really paying with their own money.
None of this applies to ordinary hotels and restaurants in ordinary cities, where price usually equals quality.
One last caveat on prices. Bars are bl**dy expensive compared to local wages. I could by a bottle of beer for about 3 RMB (less than US 50 cents) from any hole in the wall shop. In a bar, a pitcher of beer might cost 100 RMB and a can about 15 RMB. The same goes for real coffee and exotic foods (to the Chinese) like McDonalds or Pizza. Because of the great imbalance of wealth, luxury costs many times the local wages. I tended to eat in noodle and dumpling shops and could live quite happily on 500RMB a month. But one night in a bar could see me spending that and more (and I'm no big drinker). All the same, a visiting North American or European will find that money still goes a long way in China.
Oh, and Ray, the unhelpful clerks are still alive and well. Foreigners tend to call it the Mei you (pronounced May Oh) culture. mei you means, literally, not have. But really it is an attitude more than a statement. If a clerk says 'Mei You' you might as well give up trying. neither tears, rage, pleading nor begging will persuade your tormentor to go out back and get that crucial item you need from the huge pile in the store room! All of us, and Americans, particularly, can find this attitude an anathema to everything we know about service, and suffer real culture shock when we realize the little twerp just isn't interested. Well, be honest, how hard would you try for one dollar a day?
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scott
Senior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by scott on Oct 4, 2007 0:06:53 GMT -5
Have any of you been to the big camera market in Beijing? I was there in 2001. It is on the north-west edge of the city, out past the second ring road, as I recall. I don't know if it's still there.
It was a large 3-story building with about 40 small shops on each floor. Most were specialized to some extent. Some shops had only the latest auto-everything SLRs, some mostly darkroom equipment, and some mostly vintage cameras. I saw quite a few odd varieties of Russian cameras there, and of course loads of old Chinese-made cameras. It was fun just browzing.
The only thing I bought was a Chinese MuDan, very similar to the old Seagull brand TLR.
Have any of you used a Great Wall 6x6 SLR? How do you like it?
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