Ilford Sportsman...with apologies

[scott]

(I'm posting this note here, because I didn't see a Crappy Camera category)

Hi,

Quite a few of the cameras I have added to my collection over the years have been the kind that I acquired not specifically because I thought they were going to produce great images, but rather because they were interesting in other ways. Maybe they were peculiar in some way, or I was just curious to see what kind of results were possible using that particular kind of camera.

Some of them are certain brands of low-end cameras that were obviously produced and sold in huge numbers for many years running during the late 50s and early 60s, and it's obvious because you still see so many on the on-line auctions. There's the Ilocas, the Regulas, the Baldas, the Pigeons and Shinanos.

I finally got around to trying out my Ilford Sportsman (Dacora 3-element lens, ca. 1958). I know it's a crappy camera, and I hope you people here won't be angry with me for bringing down the tone of this forum by posting a few images from my Sportsman. I'm sorry, but I wanted to post a few just because I myself was pretty surprised. A few of the images I got are actually not half bad, especially for a $6 camera. I cleaned the lens, set the focus, and loaded it with ASA 400 color print film. It's got a three speed shutter: B-25-50-200.

Anybody else used one of these, or been surprised lately by a camera that turned out to be not as crappy as you thought?



Maybe these were the Volkswagens of the late 50s camera industry-- they were affordable, but strictly no-frills and completely manual.

Here's two images (with actual-pixel cropped versions)





Bao An temple, Taipei. All temples in Taiwan have a lot of ceramic ornamentation, but around this particular temple, there are a lot of food items depicted --as well as pots of steaming tea. I saw vegetables like cucumbers, carrots, garlic and radish. There's also fruit like lychee, peaches, watermelon, and the bananas and star fruit you see here. In the edible creatures category, there are ceramic chickens, frogs, crabs, clams, squid and fish.






Chicken hearts on a stick! A favorite snack in Taiwan. He's also got necks, gizzards, and feet. Last night (Sunday) in the night market, about dusk. 400 ASA. Taiwanese people love to go to the night markets about dusk, to stroll, eat, shop...and then eat some more. A little BBQ squid here, a cooked chicken neck there, and a block of cooked duck-blood at the next stand. Ah, that's the life. And the more crowded, the better.

[vintageslrs]

Scott

Please do not think that we are only interesed in expensive cameras. Many of us love the inexpensive ones just as much as the high priced ones. So, please don't ever hold back on that account.
And the photos your Ilford Sportsman took are excellent....very impressive. I am glad you posted them as now I know they are capable of taking such good photos.....
and now tell me....have you tried those chicken hearts on a stick! Are they good?

thanks for posting
Bob

[kiev4a]

I think Scott's photos with various cameras suggest that it's often the photographer rather than the camera that determines the quality of the finished photo. Many of those old cameras are capable of producing pictures on par with the latest models. But to get that kind of quality, the operator really has to know his or her business. Scott obviously does.

[herron]

I couldn't agree more, Wayne. I've mentioned often on this forum (once even with a horrible gaff in the telling) that the most important lens is the one in the photographer's eye. The camera is a lesser part of the equation...as Scott so ably demonstrates.

[John Parry]

I like to see the 'before and after' shots pre, and post cropping.

Cameras are machines for taking pictures. How good or efficient the machine is counts for nothing if the eye isn't seeing the final result before the camera is even touched.

We buy cameras from whatever source, but many of them are in almost perfect condition - no matter what make. They weren't carefully packed away in lofts and garages because they were worn out, but because so many people just don't have that vision - and realise it. Your eyes are OK!

Regards - John

[Randy]

I love to get those cameras that say "broken" or "parts camera" that actually still work. I love all cameras!

[scott]

>>and now tell me....have you tried those chicken hearts on a stick! Are they good?

No, I have to admit I have never tried the hearts. Or the blood blocks. I have chewed the meat off of a few chicken necks from the street stalls. I will sometimes eat a little barbequed (pork) small intestines, freshly-barbequed Japanese-style, but it's not my favorite. There's quite a few exotic (to me) foods I have become accustomed to here, but there's still a lot I still try to avoid.

[herron]

Many years ago (almost 20 now), while I was in Beijing and Shanghai, I sampled things on sticks being sold by the street vendors...many times not sure what I was actually trying (I prefer not to know to this day). Found most of it to be palatable, and some downright good. Even tried 1000-year-old eggs (which really aren't, by the way...1000-years-old or good) -- managing to eat them with chopsticks (try it with a wedge of hard-boiled egg, it was not easy)!

BTW -- is good film developing any easier to find in Taiwan than it is becoming here? Your images have some beautiful, saturated color to them!

[PeterW]

Hi Scott,

No need for apologies for the Ilford Sportsman. I think they offered great value for money and, as you showed, even the bottom of the range models turned out good pictures.

To read more about my view of them go to my website
www.peterwallage.com
and click on My cameras -> Ilford.

Peter W.

[scott]

Ron,

your story brings to mind one kind of food I saw in Beijing that I have never seen in Taiwan: sparrow kebabs. Did you see those? People were selling and buying them on every corner when I was there in 2000. About 5 plucked roasted sparrows on each stick. No, I didn't try them. There were quite a few sidewalk restaurants (more like outdoor beer joints) on the streets, and when we sat down to have a Beijing Beer (which is actually pretty good), I saw that most people were being served bowls of deep-fried minnows, which they were munching whole. To me, it smelled too much like catfood, so I didn't try them. Did you?

--scott

[scott]

Peter,

What a great site! I have so far only read your Ilford piece, but I'll return and read more later.

The reason I was so surprised to get a decent image from the Sportsman was because I assumed it to be the sort of camera that was designed to LOOK like a real camera, but that wouldn't actually produce a decent image. BUT...they were obviously bought in huge numbers, because I always see them by the dozens on the auction sites. I wasn't around then, so I don't know where they fit into the price range at the camera shops in the late 50s, but I'm assuming they were one notch below the slightly better-quality cameras with 3-element lenses, such as Agfa Silettes with Agnar and Apotar lenses, or Kodak Retinettes with the Reomar lens. I noticed that some of the later Sportsman models had the Cassar lens, which was the same lens used by many of the larger German camera companies in the 50s and 60s, such as Iloca and Regula.

One Ilford (via Dacora) item I am hoping to find is the Sportsmaster, with the four element f/2.8 Rodenstock Ysarex lens. Must be pretty rare. Have you seen one? I read that it went for 44 pounds in 1962.

Where a particular camera fit into the current market is something I am always curious about.

Kent, eh? I visited Kent on my first and only trip to England a few years ago. We visited friends in Whitstable, and toured through many of the scenic seaside towns along the southern coast. After driving west along the coast to Lands End, we stopped for a look around in Avesbury, Oxford, and the New Forest on our way back to London. So much to see!

[herron]

scott said:

Ron,

your story brings to mind one kind of food I saw in Beijing that I have never seen in Taiwan: sparrow kebabs. Did you see those? People were selling and buying them on every corner when I was there in 2000. About 5 plucked roasted sparrows on each stick. No, I didn't try them. There were quite a few sidewalk restaurants (more like outdoor beer joints) on the streets, and when we sat down to have a Beijing Beer (which is actually pretty good), I saw that most people were being served bowls of deep-fried minnows, which they were munching whole. To me, it smelled too much like catfood, so I didn't try them. Did you?

--scott

LOL! ;D
Had what I thought were fried smelt that could have been the minnows....and may have had the sparrow kebabs. Like I said, there were several things I had that I was not sure about, and really felt better off not knowing! About the only thing I avoided was drinking water that wasn't bottled or boiled!

I was there for three weeks in 1986. I'm sure things have changed since then. At that time, things had only just begun to be opened up to westerners...particularly western-owned businesses. There were no big name retail stores or restaurants...I did find a few private "French" restaurants that were pretty good...and the only place to find the better retail goods was at the official "Friendship Store."

I do have a story about the time there (and it has been 20 years, not almost 20). On the Fourth of July we went to a party hosted at the American Embassy (they actually flew in the grills, fryers and food so they could make real "Big Macs" for the day!)

Anyway, the crowd was anticipated to be too big for just the American Embassy compound, so they built a fenced area that crossed the street to the Egyptian Embassy. It was in the area of the Egyptian compound that they set up the temporary "McDonald's."

My trip was business related, and some of the people we (my wife went too) were "hanging around" with was an engineer named Eli, and his wife. We were sitting there, enjoying our first burger in a couple of weeks, when Eli (who happened to be Jewish) commented: "I never would have dreamed that a Jew would be celebrating the Fourth of July by eating a Big Mac on Egyptian soil in the middle of Communist China!"

At the time, it seemed so ironic it was funny, which I'm sure is why I have remembered it! ;D




BTW -- I wholeheartedly agree about the beer!