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Post by John Parry on Sept 5, 2007 15:16:02 GMT -5
A lovely young friend of mine graduated recently. She wants to become a professional photographer, but she's currently broke, and cant afford a decent computer to manipulate her digital images.
So I said, why not take some film shots, get them developed, and transferred onto CD. Good idea, but she had sold her film camera in order to buy her digital SLR in the second year of her course.
What kind of camera would you like to borrow? was my question. I'll leave that to you, she said. Where to start?
But I had to be realistic; I wanted a package with a variety of lenses, but wouldn't be a million miles away from the digital SLR she'd been using.
Answer: I dropped her off a Praktica BC1. Semi automatic, but full manual capability. 28, 50 and 35-70 mm Carl Zeiss 'bayonets', plus a Bell & Howell 70 - 200 M42 with adapter.
I think that was alright, don't you? !!
She's promised to show me what she gets, and I'll show you all too.
Regards - John
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Post by doubs43 on Sept 5, 2007 17:02:09 GMT -5
John, that's more than "alright". It's extremely generous of you. I hope this is her springboard to success and that you can - rightfully - claim some of the credit for her career.
It's this sort of thoughtful kindness that makes the people on this board a special bunch.
Walker
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Post by kiev4a on Sept 5, 2007 17:25:20 GMT -5
Given the advancements in photography in the past few years anyone trying to be a pro has a road I don't envy. Everyone with a DSLR seems to believe they are on the way to professional status. Meanwhile, the market for professional still work probably isn't growing that much.
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Post by herron on Sept 6, 2007 9:09:18 GMT -5
A very generous offer. I hope it proves successful for your young friend. I know I had some trepidations when my middle son -- who already had a degree in psychology, and was working in the "psych" ward of a local hospital -- announced he thought he wanted to go back to school to learn to be a photographer. He didn't even own a camera at the time! I told him if he was serious, he needed to get his training from a reputable, 4-year program, recognized for the depth of its instruction, and the success of its graduates. I loaned (read: gave) him the only two Nikons I ever had in my collection, so he could go about taking pictures to provide the required portfolio to accompany his applications. He surprised me by having a natural talent for composition and lighting, and his portfolio pictures were outstanding (Dad was very proud ;D). He was accepted at two nationally known art and industrial design colleges, chose the one closest to home, and threw himself into the instruction -- all the while still working in the hospital, to support himself. He excelled at the program, learning first the classic film side, and moving into digital. He volunteered to work with the instructors to mentor some of the students who were having a difficult time, even becoming someone the college hired for years to document other areas of industrial design and art at the school. He was recommended by the college to work with the DIA (Detroit Institutue of Art) to document their vast collection, and also apprenticed himself to one of the local pro "car shooters" -- something required to learn, if you wanted to make a "more than mediocre" living as a photographer in Detroit. He also worked for a local studio doing retail work, where he set-up and shot a lot of tabletop displays, furniture displays and clothing (with and without models). He shot a few modeling portfolios for side money. He finally decided none of that was relevant, since the complexities of doing architectural photography was what really interested him, and he made a leap of faith and moved to Florida, and set up his own incorporated business. Like all startup businesses, he's having his ups and downs...but he's supporting himself, recently bought a condo near Boca Raton, and has already traveled quite a bit, working for large resorts. So, it is possible to build a career in photography these days. It takes talent...but even more than that, it takes a lot of hard work. Jeff's web site, which he says he never has enough time to bring up to date, has a lot of his early stuff...and a couple of newer shots. I visit it often (like any doting father), just to see what he's been doing. Hopefully, John, your young friend will take advantage of your generous offer, and give you something spectacular to write about in a few years!  |
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Post by herron on Sept 6, 2007 16:57:42 GMT -5
I hear you, Ron. Like the old saying goes, "anything worth doing......." RIT is an outstanding program, too. One of the ones I recommended for my son to look at, along with the School of Art in San Francisco, and the one he finally chose, the College of Creative Studies, right here in Detroit. I suspected Jeff would be successful, long before he started his own business. He's always been a hard-working young man...sometimes making me think he was on his way to an early burn-out. But he likes it that way, and enjoys the sense of accomplishment. Must be something his mother taught him.......... LOL! |
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Post by John Parry on Sept 14, 2007 16:19:41 GMT -5
Didn't seem generous to me...
Thinking about it, we all have bagfulls of cameras, with all the lenses and accessories to make them work. Why don't we make it an objective of the board to encourage young photographers - and lend them the gear to make a start?
Charlotte's mother (Charlotte being the young lady in question) didn't believe that she'd have remembered anything about the SLR part of her course, but when we spoke, she knew exactly what I was talking about - "I'll have to open the lens wide to focus, then stop down for the shot", when I mentioned using the zoom lens with adapter. She's going to buy some B&W film because she's going to set up her own darkroom in their cellar.
She could even make her fortune with black and white shots before she even gets chance to use her digital to it's full capabilities. Who knows?
Regards - John
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Sept 14, 2007 19:38:45 GMT -5
Well, I also think it was generous of you, John, and I wish Charlotte all the luck in the world in her career. But, like Wayne, I don't envy any young person starting out nowadays to be a professional photographer, particularly freelancing in magazine journalism and photojournalism. It's never been all beer and skittles.
It was easier back in the 1960s when Valerie started her freelance career but even then it took a lot of hard work, the ability to take a lot of disappointment and shrug it off and, above all, perseverence plus.
She eventually carved herself a career in the motoring field, covering the main UK Motor Shows and new vehicle launches, but specialising in classic cars, features, rallies, events and historic car racing. One of the difficulties then, and I suspect it's much the same now, is that to get the best pictures you have to have a press pass issued by the organisers. This allows you to work on press day at the motor shows when only genuine working journalists are admitted, and in racing gives access to the pits, the paddock and vantage points on circuits where the general public can't go.
It's somewhat of a catch 22 situation. You can't get a press pass until you're 'accredited', and you can't get accredited until you've got a fair portfolio of published pictures. The fact that I was already a fairly well-known motoring and industrial journalist helped a lot, a case of it's not what you know, it's who you know.
But unless you're consistently good you don't stay in the know very long. Just one botched assignment, or a missed deadline, and your name is mud.
But pros tend to stick together, and often help each other out when things go pear-shaped, as they sometimes do.
Editors aren't noted for having long memories. It's an old, but true saying that a journalist is only as good as the last piece he wrote, and a photojournalist is only as good as the latest pictures published. Bylines are worth their weight in gold. Working hours don't have any meaning. When you're on a job you're working all the time you're awake.
News photography? Unless you're a staff photographer on a well-known newspaper or with an agency, forget it. It's a very hard specialised field, and the papers and the agencies have got the market sewn up. Unless of course you're willing to work for local papers, but in the UK they pay only peanuts.
What the position is with portrait, callendar and postcard work and other fields I've no idea because I've never really looked at them, but I suspect it's equally hard to break in. And the people at the top are very, very good at their job.
It's not the easiest career to choose but, as they say, it's better than working for a living, and young people do achieve success still, and once they start to get known, life gets easier. There are hundreds, probably thousands, of still pictures published every week, and someone has to take them.
I seldom write or take pictures for publication now, only when someone who still remembers me wants a nostalgia piece, but I know from long experience that as a freelance you can never afford to relax and run on your reputation, however good it is. The worst thing is to have someone say 'he, or she, used to be good'. There's always someone on the way up waiting to step in your shoes. And, as a freelance, there's no company pension when you have to retire.
As I said, I wish Charlotte all the very best of luck. There are a lot worse careers than photography. Whichever branch she chooses may the breaks come her way.
PeterW
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Post by Randy on Sept 14, 2007 20:45:34 GMT -5
All the young kids around here do is give you the finger and ask you what your problem is.
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Post by GeneW on Sept 15, 2007 7:52:21 GMT -5
Giving away gear to budding photographers seems like a good idea to me too. I've hooked a couple of 'new' photographers on rangefinders that way. I offered gear to my son but he was only interested in digital. He's a sound designer and multimedia kind of person and uses a digicam to take lots of stills and then painstakingly assemble them into movies to be projected on stage. They're very edgy and young (one of his friends asked him if he had something against epileptics ... there's a lot of strobe effects).
I must say one of the things I'm happiest about is that I never tried to pursue photography commercially. As a profession, I think it's a heart breaker. I know one very talented young photographer, locally, who went broke, had to sell most of his gear, and now works behind the counter in a coffee shop. Part of the reason he didn't make it is that he refused to go digital. My guess is that he got left in the dust. You can't afford to be fussy about things like that when profits are marginal, time is money, and you're competing against everyone else who wants to 'do photography' for a living who are all equipped with digital gear and know how to use it.
As an amateur I've had the luxury of continuing to love and be excited about photography, photographing whatever I want, in any medium I prefer. I'm not certain that I could honestly encourage any young person to pursue photography as a living. It would take all the joy out of it.
Gene
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Post by doubs43 on Sept 15, 2007 12:41:56 GMT -5
Didn't seem generous to me... Regards - John Sorry, John...... you've been out-voted and it's official: That was a very generous thing to do.  Seriously, it's quite possible that your best contributions are still to come. Charlotte may require the benefit of your expertise with film cameras in any number of areas. Helping her could be a challenge and rewarding too. I hope it is. Walker |
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Post by Microdad on Sept 15, 2007 14:08:25 GMT -5
Sorry John, but I have to vote with the crowd on this one. Say what you will, but it was generous of you indeed. Not to mention, your generosity reflects on photographers and the craft as a whole. She'll probably always remember this just as I still remember my first camera my Dad gave me when I was nine years old. Whether she makes a career of it or not, you've given her a tool to record her perspective of the world and the ability to share it with others. Who knows where her new hobby will take her. And as with many people, (such as myself) it may simply be a path to the career(s) she eventually chooses. There's rarely anything in the world as exciting as seeing a young person taking up photography. |
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Post by bayoufoto on Sept 15, 2007 15:26:39 GMT -5
Well, I will way in. the first time I tried full time photography was a complete failure. I sold my half of the small construction company bought the equipment, rented a store front studio and then did not know how to reach customers. I did not know how to advertise and drum up business so in 6 months I was out. I ended up having to sell all the equipment to pay off the divorce.
Now fast forward to last summer. I was wiser, kept my day job and proceeded to get the word out. I am in a small market so 2500 dollar weddings are rare and the market is fierce. I went after the overlooked 500-1000 market advertised at every boutique and hair salon in my area. Posted at all the universities, bought some airtime on local radio and advertised in the small town papers. Instead of buying the latest and most expensive digital I used my old film cams and my hotshoe flashes. I got friends and co-eds to pose in rented gowns for bridal portraits.
Like an old "Lady of the evening" said. It is easier to find 5 suckers with 50 to spend than one with 250.
I had to work more but my name got out. The quality was on par with every one else so it was a matter of time before the big stuff started to come in. I bought a used Dreb from GeneW and went on from there. I did the same thing when I started shooting models. I did a bunch for free and advertised at the schools and colleges. Then I joined a model site and went from there.
You can make money but you have to find your niche.I will be in Miami in dec for a weddding and have already booked 10 for next year. the average is only about 800 per but my overhead is a lot less than most.
I just rented and old car service staion that had a nice 30x40 shop with a roll up door. Got it for just upkeep and utilities. Now I can do bike shoots and pinups with vintage cars all winter. My shoots are now $50/hr with a two hour minimum. I have one in a little while and another next sat that is all day.
I am doing what I love at the pace I want. My studio is open by appointment only so i am not tied to it.
In todays world where everyone with a digital is a photog you have to have quality that rises above "Uncle earl" and his P&S
One last one " Never get so full of yourself, that turn down jobs" anytime you can shoot is a learning experience
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Sept 15, 2007 18:17:40 GMT -5
Thanks for posting your experiences, Rickey, and for being so straightforwardly honest about failure as well as success. I'm so glad you didn't give up.
As I said, I know very litttle about the portrait/wedding side of photography, but what you've written has got to be a great encouragement to anyone else starting in this field. Your 'find' of the ex-service station to use as a studio is wonderful.
Even though your work is outside the field I was in, may I just offer one thought?
Be careful of your copyright. I don't know the position in the US where it may be different, but in the UK the copyright of portrait and wedding pictures belongs to the photographer unless he, or she, signs it over - for a fee - to whoever ordered the pictures.
When my granddaughter was married last year the order contract of the photographer she used contained a clause expressly stating that the fee was for attendance and an agreed number of prints at the stated size(s). It also stated that the copyright of the pictures remained with the photographer but that he undertook not use them in connection with any advertising other than that of his own business, nor to licence their use in any publication, nor on the internet, without her consent. It also stated the price for extra prints.
This clause enables a photographer to get extra income by supplying prints to Auntie Maud, Cousin Suzie and other friends and relatives at reasonable prices and discourages digital copying for friends and relatives.
It also means that reproduction of a wedding picture in a local paper, usually to the delight of the bride and groom, and relatively common here, carries a reproduction fee to the photographer.
Not a lot of extra money involved, maybe, but business is business, and it all helps to meet overhead expenses. Secondary reproduction rights of Valerie's pictures generated (and still does in some cases) a useful extra.
I suspect that you might have to guard the copyright of model and girl/machine pin-up pictures more than wedding and portrait photos. Copyright is a freelance's lifeblood.
Good luck for the future.
PeterW
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Post by bayoufoto on Sept 15, 2007 18:30:53 GMT -5
Good advice. You should see my extensive wedding contracts and model releases. Maybe I will post them
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Post by John Parry on Sept 18, 2007 16:42:00 GMT -5
Well thanks all, but I really am falling over cameras, and as I've always had a soft spot for Prakticas, it was the logical thing to do. You know what happens - you put in a bid for a camera 'kit' - not really expecting to get it, and the next thing you know, a whole bagful arrives, complete with accesories of every description - often from the owner's previous camera (or three). That's happened to me a couple of times with BC Practikas, so I was in a comfortable position to help the girl out. I deliberately made it a little more difficult for her to use the zoom. I could see it was the first item she looked at - obviously what she has one on her digital, so - why not? !
Funnily enough (almost to change topic, but not quite), there was an ad on our company Exchange and Mart for a Praktica 'kit' for a fairly reasonable price. I got in touch with the guy and asked for details. Turned out it was a B100, with a wide angle, the standard 50mm and quite a nice zoom. The W/A was actually a 25mm, which is rare in a BC fit. So having explained why I wasn't interested in the B100 (any Praktica fans will know precisely why!), I offered him £10 for his lens and light meter, with the proviso that I would give him a 28mm lens so he could still sell the whole package as a 'kit'
Still negotiating, so I'll let you know - I may have to give him a 35-70 zoom instead of the 28mm. Something else to fall over!!
I still have a couple of BC1's, a BC3, an AM1 and a BX20, so if there are any budding young photographers in the UK..... Just give me a shout!
Regards - John
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