What Constitutes a Budget Rangefinder ?

[dee]

What consitutes a ' budget ' - cost effective Rangefinder ?

Obviously , I could keep trying on e-bay , buying cheap cameras hoping for one that works ,
or is it better to spend more on a camera which has been serviced with a warranty ?

Would it be a later Olympus etc , a classic Leica IIIc , or a cheap , and hopefully , cheerful ex USSR gem ?

Were I to have just one camera , it would be a restored and serviced classic - such as my Contax II , body revived with a Kiev shutter by the Kiev techs , or my KNeB II , bought CLA from a respected ex USSR dealer . Both costing around £ 120 , plus an additional £40 for a clean rigid 50mm f2 Sonnar . With warranty , of course .

Compared to a properly serviced Leica IIIc , this , in UK at least , is inexpensive .

But compared to any 1970s/80s Japenese SLR - Canon , Nikon , Minolta , it's undoubtedly indulgent .

It is also possible to buy a working camera for a fraction of this outlay -
I have a couple of exquiste Faux Leicas from Moscow Photo at £60 Zorki S and £70 Zorki 1 which work beautifully , but even this could be considered expensive for what could be considered cameras recreated from unwanted parts .[ they look superb and new though LOL ]

Paying less than £60 shipping incl seems rather a lottery - some are great - mint Kiev 4a UK sourced , boxed with all paperwork - others terrible - smart black Zorki S ,suposedly cla , which is c..p .

How do you all work out the equation twix cost and useablity / reliability ?

[pompiere]

I have the mechanical aptitude to repair most of the bargain cameras that I come across, so I guess that I can accept the longer odds when the outlay is only a few dollars. I haven't bought anything from the internet, so I have always had the chance to handle everything first. Even so, sometimes the battery is dead or missing, so there is no way to check all the functions. I have only had one camera that I have thus far been unable to get working, but I still take it out from time to time and have another go at it. As a tinkerer, the joy is in bringing something back to life that someone had discarded as nonfunctional junk.

In general, if the cost is less than $10, I will take a chance that it may never work. If more than that, I need to know that the camera is mostly functional or comes with enough accessories to make it worth the investment. Even the cheap or free camera can be a bad investment if you have to spend a lot more, just to see if it can be made to work. A lithium 2CR5 battery is $10 to check a $1 point & shoot.

[Deleted]

The Soviet cameras always are a crap shoot. One camera will work perfectly and another of the same model will be absolutely junk. It all pretty much depends on what time of the month and under what seven-year plan they were built. I have a lot of them and try to get most in working condition but I wouldn't depend on many of them.

Any model Leica RF, with a good CLA, should function properly for a long time, as should any of the 1950s era Japanese or German RFs. They might cost more initially but it you want a dependable user you'll probably pay less in the long run with a name brand.

Wayne

[PeterW]

Because of varying quality standards ex-USSR cameras imported into the UK by the old Technical and Optical Equipment Company (the offical importers) all had a check-over by Russian factory-trained technicians before being sent out to dealers. They were either put right or rejected. I was told at T&OE that about 10-12% were sent back to Russia.

I would go for a T&OE-imported Zorki 4 or 4K (4K having a lever wind). I have several and they all work perfectly.

In most markets the Zorki 4s were fitted with Industar f/3.5 lenses, but the ones imported by T&OE all had black f/2 Jupiter lenses. I've got no grumbles at all about the performance of these lenses.

The only drawback is that on later models the numbers on the speed dial were printed instead of being engraved. With time the numbers tend to wear off, but one of the Russian camera forums, I forget now which, has in its Files section a print of the numbers which you can print out and paste on the dial. A coat of clear varnish will protect it. Fine if you want a user camera.

Within the past six months or so I've seen Zorki 4s and 4Ks sell on eBay UK for around £15-20, though in a few cases last-few-seconds sniping sent them up to around £30 - all prices including postage.

PeterW

[dee]

Yes a TOE camera is a good bet for those of us in UK - my mint boxed Kiev 4a was £50 and the Kiev 4 was £27 and they work perfectly , though a Zorki 4 is a lot more flexible concerning lenses .

[seele]

Regarding USSR-built cameras, I feel the issue we encounter now is more about assembly and age, rather than inherent design issues. We all know how they used what we jokingly call "Russian Tractor Grease" as lubricants!

Dee, as you should know, in the hands of a skilled technician, an exemplary example of a Kiev/Zorki/Fed can be build. I have heard of reports that a Fed built by a skilled technician (probably Oleg K) out-performed any equivalent Leica, and that is saying something. With one of those you can be sure that you are getting a dependable camera which works smooth as butter at a price less than that of a Leica, the downside is that you do not have a satisfaction of having a Leica though ;D

But to the original question: if a camera is meant to function as such, being a budget camera means reasonable purchase price, dependable function and low running cost. If it has an exposure meter then it should use inexpensive and readily available batteries, if it needs one at all. While not being a rangefinder, I actually prefer my selenium-metered Olympus Pen-D rather than a D-2 or D-3 for that reason.

[prasanna67]

Hello everyone! I am new here; just joined. Greetings! On the budget RFs, I have bought several Zorkis and Feds from Ukraine and some from Russia in that past two years. In the process I also learned to CLA all of them. I found that these cameras take more lubrication than the German and Japanese ones. Especially, the teeth in the gears seem to be cut differently. I use front end bearing grease on them, grade AP3. In the tropics it seems good. In colder climes one would go for a lighter grade, AP2. Usual advice from camera engineers/repairmen is not to lubricate the teeth of the gears. [ed Romney, Tomas Tomosy, et al]. All my RFs from Former Soviet union work very smoothly, now. Most of them cost less than BP10. Of course, I had to spend time doing the CLA at home, joyfully though.

[prasanna67]

How do I post a picture or two? Thanks, Subbarayan Prasanna.

[Deleted]

The assembly on FSU cameras normally is the problem, not the design. They got in a hurry to get x number out the factory door by the end of the month and quality control went out the window. The original lubricants tend to harden up, too, although I've found that to be more of a problem with lenses than cameras. If I cla an FSU camera I remove all existing lubricant and usually try to polish the tips of the curtain drum shafts (they didn't have actual bearings). I've found that a light oil with Teflon works well. One of the best things one can do is replace the curtains with ones made of lighter material. Problem is, no one seems to make them. An FSU collector Jay Javier, who lives in the Philippines, sent me some curtain material he made that is much lighter than the Soviet curtains. Makes a Zorki 1 feel like a Leica II.

Wayne

[Doug T.]

Hi Prasanna, and welcome! Read the eplanation of UBB codes, that will give you a good start on posting photos.
I personally think that a budget rangefinder should be low cost, have good optics, give good service, and be easily repaired. I've had several Yashicas over the years, and have never had any serious problems with them. The batteries are a bit iffy, but there are ways around that.

Doug

[prasanna67]

"Problem is, no one seems to make them."--- One Mr Asahi sells thin [0.2mm] curtain material made in Japan. It has silk on both sides and rubber as a sandwich layer in the middle. Sells in 8inx10in sheets. I have cut and used it in my Exakta IIB. Works very well. Try AkiAsahi.com. He used to sell on Ebay. But has his own website now. Regards, sp

[julio1fer]

Budget rangefinders:

If you want interchangeable lenses, Soviet RF cameras are hard to beat for results/price ratio. I like their optics very much. My favorites are Fed 3b, Zorki-6 and the Kievs. Russian friends have told me that Kievs were considered higher quality than other types.

If you don't need interchangeable lenses, you could be better off with one of the 1960-1970's RF Japanese marvels. Canonet (look for the larger aperture lenses), Olympus 35 SP, Minolta Hi-Matic 9 are good examples. You get some automation, too, if you want to use it.

Welcome Subbarayan, who knows a lot about getting old cameras into shape, and best of all, using them well!