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Post by Randy on Oct 22, 2010 22:26:29 GMT -5
This really is one of my pet peeves. Some doofus will list an off brand camera on ebay that is all dusty and may not even work, or the camera is so obscure I laugh, and then in their listing it says...STUDENT! What?!! What does that old 35mm camera have to do with a STUDENT?!! Do they think if they add that to their listing it will automatically make the camera worth more?
When's the last time somebody came here and asked....."what's the best camera for a student?"......
Listen Bubb....a student ain't interested or has any use for your musty old SLR you perchance dragged out of Grandma's Pantry!!!
I hate to see listings like this.
Chinon SLR with Argus 50mm lens. STUDENT
Buy It Now $149.99 with $23.79 Shipping.
Small Print.....I don't have batteries for this so I don't know if it works or not......I'm cleaning out Grandma's Pantry.....As-Is....
What is wrong with people?
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Post by Randy on Oct 22, 2010 22:36:20 GMT -5
Minolta 35mm SLR Pentax....STUDENT (camera in photo is an old Honeywell Spotmatic with a 49mm Minolta lens cap)
The trigger clicks when I wind it and push the button, not sure if the meter works because the battery thing is frozen shut. Excellent camera for STUDENT.
$69.99 and $22.00 Economy Shipping.
C'mon, you guys see this. Do you think people will buy it?
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Post by Just Plain Curt on Oct 22, 2010 22:40:43 GMT -5
I understand this only too well. Since I virtually live on eBay, Kijiji, Shopgoodwill.com and others, I see this at least ten times a day. Locally someone just listed an incredible deal on a Praktica (no model mentioned) with both a case, a 50mm and a 135mm for $150. Good student camera huh? There's also the XG-M outfit for $300 or the Canon Auto/Reflex that started at $200 but is listed at $60 or make us a deal. Sheesh, since it's become trendy for kids to try film, everyone has decided dad's old K1000 is worth hundreds of dollars, special collectible that it is since it is so rare, LOL. I've even seen ads like you described saying they couldn't test the shutter as they had no batteries even though it has a manual shutter and takes no batteries. I try not to get ticked off at all the stupidity and greed, so now I take revenge by reporting sellers who charge excessive shipping and try to circumvent eBay fees. A bit of payback for all the greed out there.
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Post by Randy on Oct 22, 2010 22:43:29 GMT -5
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Post by Just Plain Curt on Oct 22, 2010 22:47:05 GMT -5
If I could learn complex subjects in one day, I wouldn't be working on 32 years in a pulp and paper mill. Guess I are jest stoopid, LOL.
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Oct 22, 2010 22:54:08 GMT -5
Oh come on guys. You seem to be saying that everything on eBay is not the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Shame on you. Tch. Tch. Tch.
Mickey
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Post by Randy on Oct 22, 2010 22:56:39 GMT -5
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Oct 23, 2010 8:05:27 GMT -5
Randy,
In the broadest terms I agree with you. You see the same thing with musical instruments like guitars. A lot of people class any old rubbish as "suit beginner" or "suit student" when it's almost unuseable and more likely to put them of music or photography for life.
I also hate sellers who profess ignorance like "I know nothing about cameras so I don't know if it works but it clicks when I press the button". I've never come across anyone sellling anything who hasn't had a good look at it to see if it works or not.
These people trade on the "take a chance" attitude that, let's face it, is strong in most of us, to get rid of rubbish.
OTOH, I looked more closely at some of the "student" cameras in the ebay link you gave. Why the sellers included the word student I don't know. Maybe it's a hangover from the days when colleges teaching photography advised students to get a useable film camera because they were also taught developing and wet darkroom printing. I gather this is no longer the case because colleges prepare students for a career in professional photography where hardly anyone uses film nowadays.
That said I still object to the use of the word student applied to film camera. Not necessarily because the camera itself is rubbish, some of the items listed were from dealers and carried a limited warranty. Some of the buy-it-now prices weren't all that OTT.
But suitable for a student? No, no, no. It's the wrong type of camera.
Going on to the one-day course to which you gave a link, it doesn't offer to teach photography in one day. It's a one-day workshop on studio portrait lighting. It says it's for pro photographers and has a note: Intended for advanced photographers.
I think the whole subject is a timely reminder to us all to read everything in an advert or in an ebay listing carefully, and then read it again looking to see what it doesn't say as well as what it says, before buying or bidding on anything sight-unseen.
PeterW
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Post by nikkortorokkor on Oct 27, 2010 5:14:50 GMT -5
Peter, as ever, yours is a seasoned and reasonable post. Here Downunder, we also get a bunch of "student" SLRs turning up on web auctions, and they continue to make me chuckle. Many are, in my opinion genuine if ignorant. Though this leeway must diminish as the 'technology shift' to digital recedes ever further into history. My daughter is 'doing' an industrial design degree, and all her photography modules have been compulsorily digital. For ID students, the photograph is a tool of the trade, and producing it in the most efficient format is a no-brainer. Mind you, she did tell me that the actual photography majors still must complete some wet photography modules. I see the point in this, as a kind of technical learning exercise which reinforces the photo in photography. The relationship between light and wet photography seems more obvious and elemental than it does in digital. One might make a similar observation about vinyl sound recording versus magnetic or digital. Also, print majors still play with wood blocks, screen prints, brass etching and other 'archaic' techniques long since abandoned in commercial printing. In short, there is an 'art' element to many photography courses, and wet photography remains a relevant art form. But I still smirk at the many 'student' cameras up for auction - this one has to be the king of them all: www.trademe.co.nz/Electronics-photography/Film-cameras/35mm-zoom/auction-327145851.htm
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Oct 27, 2010 7:10:00 GMT -5
Michael,
Don't scoff.
That is one of those amazing cameras with a genuine Focus Free "OPTICAL" lens. A bargain at 1/10th the price - the case that is.
I have one that is exactly like that with the Argus brand.
Mickey
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2010 11:13:40 GMT -5
What worthwhile photography class is still being taught using film. As much as I love my 35mm gear, teaching someone to shoot with film makes no sense to me in what has become almost entirely a digital world.
In other news, a Nikkormat FT3 was listed on EB the other day with a BIN of $1,400. The same day another FT3 body sold for $39.
W
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Post by nikkortorokkor on Oct 27, 2010 12:42:53 GMT -5
Going slightly OT - I note a general trend that higher end, recent (sub 20-year-old) prosumer and pro bodies (usually sans lenses) are the most realistically priced e,g, Nikon F90, F100, F4, F5. The vendors know what they've got and know its relative worth in a digital world.
I'm still a little gobsmacked by the speed of the revolution. AT the turn of the century, digital was still (just) the province of 'early adopters'. Now, film is largely for collectors and the obstreperous.
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Post by drako on Oct 27, 2010 17:46:16 GMT -5
I can't help the glaring inaccuracy in Michael's linked listing -- "still in box" but somehow the seller managed to take it out of the box for a photo!
Peter, when I started reading this thread I too thought of "student" as applied to musical instruments. When I started clarinet at 12 years old, I was given a "student" model. This thing was such a hunk of c^%p that I am amazed I kept playing. I think the value of such instruments can only be that they quickly weed out the casual players from the truly dedicated. Luckily, my parents sprang for an incredible Yamaha clarinet a couple years later and the difference was WOW!
By the way, I remember back then in the 70's that the Yamaha was $300 but I compared it to an $800 French Buffet model (the creme de la creme) and actually preferred the Japanese model.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2010 18:28:27 GMT -5
Some sellers seem to think because a camera shoots film it is automatically a collector's item and worth a lot of money, The truth is that, with the exception of a few brands or models, film cameras have about as much value now as typewriters after they were replaced by computers.
In our area Walmart and WallGreen processes film but a Wallgreen manager told me recently that something like 85 percent of people now come into to have digital images printed and the time will come soon when it's not economically feasible to keep the film processing machines running as the expensive chemicals spoil before they reach their film limit. W.
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Post by nikkortorokkor on Oct 27, 2010 23:48:48 GMT -5
Wayne, I was musing about the 'death' of the typewriter today. I remember that it took a lot longer to die than the film camera has. The reason? the huge price and technology gap between a typewriter and a computer. My first computer, bought to type undergraduate assignments circa 1990, cost about $1500, amazingly cheap compared to the cost of a computer a few short years earlier, but still a substantial investment compared to a portable typewriter. I'd guess, of the top of my head, that typewriters were still common 15 years after the introduction of the PC.
I made the technology shift from film to digital in late 2004, when I bought an 'enthusiast' compact digital (i.e., one with full manual controls and a hot shoe) from Olympus for about $700. Substantially less than a Cosina Voigtlander (which I'd been seriously contemplating) and clutch of lenses. I'll readily admit that the CV lenses would outperform the Oly's zoom on any day of the week, and some of the compact digital 'foibles' have made me want to tear my hair out, but in terms of build quality and versatility the Oly has been staggering value.
The final irony? The Oly has served as my daughters 'student' camera and, when I taught her how to use a good tripod (yes, my Manfrotto) and cardboard reflectors (she mainly photographs design prototypes for presentation posters), her work was rewarded with seriously good grades. The Oly's digital WB filter means that she uses ordinary desk lamps for a light source.
Significantly, my daughter uses a pro lab for printing from digital. They're expensive, but the results are amazing. Her lecturer couldn't believe that her 8x10s originated on a 4mp, 7 year old compact. Good printing is still worth ta premium, even if the technology has changed.
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