Zeiss 531A puzzle

[nikonbob]

I have a post war Zeiss 531A. Embossed on the back you find 531, Made in Germany, Stuttgart and the serial number. I have downloaded a manual that shows the back as having two ruby windows at the bottom of the back. The puzzle for me is that mine has a single ruby window on the back at the top. It is just great for watching the 6x9 frame numbers go by when using modern Kodak 120 film and I assume they are for the 6x9 as they start at 8 and count down. How do you get proper frame spacing with this set up? Please excuse the obvious lack of medium format experience.

Bob

[PeterW]

Bob:
As you say, a puzzle.

The Super Ikonta 531 took 16 pictures 6x4.5 cm on 120. Zeiss Ikon numbering started with a model identification number, and the first model of a series was numbered xx0. As the model developed it became xx1, xx2 and so on.

The 531 was the first development of the pre-war 530, the difference being that the 531 had a body release. Usually, the model identification was followed by a / and a number, the number denoting the size of picture. Where the /xx was omitted, the camera usually took pictures 6x4.5 cm - except for some early Bobette models which took a different size.

So, as your camera has just 531 on the back it takes 6x4.5 cm pictures, or 16 on 120.

When Zeiss Ikon first started the idea of 'half frame' on 120 they supplied a mask to fit in the film plane of 6x9 cameras (usually numbered xxx/2, 2 being their number for 6x9), and put two ruby windows in the back so when you used the mask you wound on 1-1, 2-2, 3-3 and so on to get 16 pictures. This was done because 120 film backing papers weren't numbered for 16 exposures. The same applies to 16 on 127 cameras.

The original pre-war 530 had two ruby windows and so, I understand, did the early 531 models. However, film makers caught on to the 16 on 120 idea and all later backing papers had three rows of numbers - 1 to 16 towards one edge, 1 to 12 in the middle and 1-8 towards the other edge. So, many makers of dedicated 16 on 120 cameras (no mask) dropped the two ruby windows in favour of one window which lined up with the 1 to 16 numbers on the backing paper. As your camera has only one ruby window it should be on the opposite side of the camera back from the two ruby windows shown in the manual.

I think the clue to your puzzle may be that you say the numbers count down from 8 to 1. This could happen only if the backing paper was reversed left to right, or in other words, you are starting from the 'exposed' end of the paper, and the window is lined up with the 1 to 8 series of numbers.

Did you by any chance test the winding with an old backing paper with no film inside it? If you did, respool the paper, or wind it fully on and take it over to the opposite film chamber, so that it starts at the 1 for each series of numbers and you may well find that the numbers 1 to 16 come up in the window - counting up, not down.

This is the only explanation I can think of. Good luck!

PeterW

[doubs43]

That's an interesting situation and I'd like to know the answer to Peter's question. I've hankered for a 6x4.5 Zeiss folder but the prices are very high. I've never found one that I could afford.

Walker

[nikonbob]

Peter

And the answer is, I had better change my name to nikonknob, you were absolutely right. I re spooled the film and magically the right numbers appeared in the ruby window. I went to the fridge and got out an almost fresh roll of Kodak BWCN which is now in the camera. Now to road test it tomorrow.

Walker

I found mine at a local antique store some time back but I can't remember what I paid. I am sure it wasn't a lot considering I'm cheap and it is a pure user not a pristine collector. It is really an impressive camera with regard to build and compactness considering the format. I would not hesitate to carry it on a trip, it is that small when not in use. Here is hoping everything works on this one.

Bob

[PeterW]

Bob,

I re spooled the film and magically the right numbers appeared in the ruby window.

Glad that got the numbering sorted. Don't feel bad about not spotting the reason. We all have our moments like that. As I said a few threads ago, I tried out a 1930s German 16 on 127 camera early this year - at least, it is 16 on 127 if you have the film plane mask. I didn't, and took 16 overlapping pictures. I of all people should have realised it needed a mask for 16 pictures!

It is really an impressive camera with regard to build and compactness considering the format.

And so it should be. Many people regard the Ikontas as the princes of folding rollfilm cameras, and the Super Ikontas as the kings. Why? Because IMHO the basic design was laid down by Dr. August Nagel before he left Ziess Ikon - yes, the same Dr. Nagel that designed the Retina for Kodak, one of my camera designer idols and arguably the most influential camera designer of the 20th century.

I have one of his very early Ikontas from the first production batch of 1928, one of the first 300 made, with a slightly more angular, chunky body design than the later models. I found it some time ago in a very sad condition, half the leatherette missing and the paintwork very poor, but I want to restore it because it is quite a landmark camera.

Nagel left Zeiss Ikon in late 1928 so he didn't oversee the development of the Ikonta and Super Ikonta but Zeiss Ikon stayed true to his designs for the self-erecting lens standards, designs that put the lens accurately and rigidly where it belonged, and made the old traditional, and very inaccurate, 'slide along the baseboard' designs obsolete almost overnight. Not the first time one of Nagel's designs had done this, btw.

Add Nagel's design to Zeiss Ikon build quality and Carl Zeiss lenses and they were bound to have a world beater.

PeterW

[nikonbob]

PeterW

Thanks, I don't feel so bad now.

Bob

[nikonbob]

I know it is an old thread but I just finally finished a roll of Kodak BWCN and think the results are OK.

Bob

[doubs43]

Bob, not only are the pictures excellent but the homes themselves are interesting. I love wrap-around porches and the second story porches are both functional and attractive.

I'd say your 531 is quite a nice camera and being a folder it should be a great camera to carry.

Walker

[nikonbob]

Walker

The first house pictured is, according to a friend, the Hudson Bay Company Factors house originally located elsewhere. It is likely to be, if that info is true, one of the oldest houses still in existence in our area. I must do some research on this. It is hard to imagine that you could get more potential photo quality in a smaller portable package.

Bob