Welta

[Stephen]

A 120 Welta camera, 6x9 and 6x6 format, a folding model from the 1930's, not sure of the exact model, as the leather impressed name is unreadable due to the stylised German script, and shallow impression, it may be the Symbol model, which matches the features.

Folding viewfinder for both formats, two red windows, but the mask for 6x6 is missing, but an Adox mask fits.
Fully working Prontor Shutter, even the delayed action, and lens in good order, a Welta-Freital Weltar 10.5cm F6.3 front element focus lens. The glass is un-coated. There is no flash sync fitted to the shutter.

The chrome art deco edging is a bit worn in places, a bit of rust to remove from flaked paint areas, but easy to re-touch. The bellows appears sound, I'll test it with some scrap film.

With a nice thick real leather case in good order, and all under £10 from Ebay.

Stephen.

[Stephen]

Careful examination, and a paper tracing shows the impressed name to be "Symbol" in stylised italic German....the leather slowly looses these hot pressed trademarks, expanding from damp etc.

So it is a late 1930's Welta Symbol, with the last type of Prontor shutter prior to the war period. Welta were based at Frietal, near Dresden, and ended in the Russian controlled Eastern Germany, and were later incorporated into the Pentacon VEB group.

Stephen.

[philbirch]

The shutter tells me it was made after 1935. The Prontor was introduced in 1935 by AGC (Alfred Gauthier, Calmbach). Carl Zeiss owned a majority share in the company - effectively owning it. Allowing Zeiss made shutters to be put on their competitors cameras. Although Zeiss's name was never used in any promotional or publicity material.

Just thought I'd let you know!

Nice camera. I only wish the two I received this morning were as nice.

[Stephen]

Bellows checks out OK, all light tight, and the shutter speeds are spot on. I'll get in some 120 colour film to check it out more, the Weltar lens has cleaned up nicely, not even scratches on the front. I think it is a three element type.
Welta had a good name for camera and lens quality in the 1930's, really only Zeiss made better quality folders.
Stephen.

[Stephen]

Can't source any 120 film quickly, so resorting to black and white, with paper negatives for the tests tomorrow. The 6x9 RC multigrade glossy paper can then be scanned to get the positive for assessment. Back to the black bag to load each shot!.
Stephen.

[Stephen]

Jul 2, 2014 17:49:40 GMT -5 philbirch said:

The shutter tells me it was made after 1935. The Prontor was introduced in 1935 by AGC (Alfred Gauthier, Calmbach). Carl Zeiss owned a majority share in the company - effectively owning it. Allowing Zeiss made shutters to be put on their competitors cameras. Although Zeiss's name was never used in any promotional or publicity material.

A bit forgotten these days is that the entire German photographic industry was under almost direct control from Berlin from about 1934. The Nazi party had ensured that the remaining companies, after several takeovers and closures in the aftermath of the late 1920's depression, worked closely together.

Zeiss in particular was to provide parts and lenses to other makers to aid national recovery. Quite whether this was under duress or falling into line with Albert Speer's Industrial plans remains open to interpretation.

Certainly direct instructions were issued in connection with military production, several companies wanted nothing to do with this and were closed or were taken over. Also, in effect, there was pooling of patents to aid the industry, although in overseas markets the patents were fully protected.

Export markets were allocated by Berlin to various companies to concentrate upon, some makes never appearing in particular places. Both the US and UK market had most makes available, either via import agents, or German owned importers, more common in the States.

Also companies in production of electrical instruments like radar and television were given direct access to the optical manufacturers resources on a non commercial basis.
Stephen.

[philbirch]

Interesting stuff Stephen. I wonder if we will ever unravel the tangled web that was the German camera industry.

[Stephen]

It all unravelled after the war, but half of the German optical industry was on it's way to Russia! Zeiss recovered in the west quite quickly, as did most of the optical makers in the Western occupied areas. Although Dresden was hit so massively, the optical makers had all moved to shadow factories long before, and lost little major equipment, the loss was in terms of personnel who were experienced in running the businesses, many ending up in the USSR.

Leica survived in Western control, but had always operated at arms length from the authorities, escaping merging with Zeiss before the war, as the main part of the business was not cameras, but microscopes.

Zeiss was used pre-war as a development company for any optical requirements by the military, such as rangefinders and periscopes, farming out work to other makers after designing the items. They also made all the gauges and test equipment required in the main Dresden plant. By the outbreak of war, most production of cameras for sale had been moved to minor factories away from Dresden.

Although the British invented Radar, the Germans had a fully working system, which like the British, was to be used for defence, but they never developed the back up or range the British did. Just like the British, they used the radio and TV industry, that was just starting up in the mid 1930's, to cover up the manufacture of the radar equipment. Zeiss provided optical items for the radar stations, optical finders, and specialist test equipment, and optical examination microscopes etc.

The British had an even grander cover up, the whole concept of the BBC adopting TV was a cover up, the 1935/6 so called competition between Baird and EMI was a blind, the whole idea was promoted by the Government to allow factories to be manufacturing radar components, whilst appearing to be making domestic TV's. After the war Whitehall even questioned whether there was a need for the BBC to start broadcasting again..........

The British Optical industry was involved in supplying lenses and valves etc., to the early TV, but also worked on many defence projects from the early 1930's.

Some personnel from Germany worked in the UK during the war, Agfa technicians with experience of the Agfa/UFA colour film process, who departed Germany due to Jewish connections, worked for Kodak in the UK, processing 16 and 35mm film stock bought before the war by the UK Military, and later developing the manufacture of more stock film. Amazingly, Kodak developed Ektachrome in this period!!!

Several other Jewish and political refugees, who had worked for Zeiss, were employed in radio and secret radar manufacture in the UK in the late 1930's, and the radio maker Peto Scott got involved with camera production with the post war period, with the Ilford Witness, which was designed by ex-German designers.

Smaller German makers like Edixa had been seized by the German Government, as they were Jewish owned, in the late 1930's, surviving in production run by Adox, but with Brothers who owned Edixa being forced to escape to the US, and to return after the war to re-establish the brand in Germany, getting some material back from Adox, but having to build new factories.

Makes like Welta, and Exakta were left in Eastern Germany as independent firms, under State control, but were later nationalised and transferred to Pentacon Dresden control, in effect to Zeiss as before the war.

[philbirch]

Jul 6, 2014 12:33:29 GMT -5 Stephen said:

The British had an even grander cover up, the whole concept of the BBC adopting TV was a cover up, the 1935/6 so called competition between Baird and EMI was a blind, the whole idea was promoted by the Government to allow factories to be manufacturing radar components, whilst appearing to be making domestic TV's. After the war Whitehall even questioned whether there was a need for the BBC to start broadcasting again..........

Sounds like a helluva conspiracy theory to me but I don't doubt what you say.

Re the radar; I was reading that the British started using higher frequencies so the equipment could be put in planes and small boats. HF RADAR needed smaller antennas which made them easier to disguise. It was a while before the Germans cottoned on.

Anyway 
Stephen I have an odd roll of 120 B&W going spare if you want one in the next few days. PM me.

[Stephen]

The source of the TV start up is now public, in Kew Archives, the BBC was not too enthusiastic about the TV services, but went ahead after Cabinet decisions were made to push Radar into full production.

EMI had commercially developed the electronic service, but in tandem was working on Radar, as indeed the Baird company was later on. The famous 1936 competition was "expected" to favour EMI, unless Baird could show a better system. Baird by the way was using electronic, not mechanical, Farnsworth receivers. He did this to ensure backwards and forwards compatibility, as he was working with Philo Farnsworth to make 600 and 1200 line receivers. EMI used just 405 lines. It is often stated that Baird was only 30 lines, but this refers to his early work in the late 1920's/early 1930's

So either winner would get the TV service BBC contract, and production in quantity could proceed with the tubes for Radar. Each maker was encouraged to produce sets as well on a commercial basis.

Baird lost the match, but mainly due to the Crystal Palace fire, where his factory was. But the Baird Company, without him in control, went ahead with tube production as well, while he experimented with colour transmissions in 1937/9.

Each of the TV makers had to devote the main factory to Radar work, and keep it all under wraps. The main requirement was large diameter screens, bigger than domestic sets, but the new designs helped produce larger screens very quickly!.

Yes, the main advantage technically the UK Radar had was very high frequency, (short wave length), and high power magnetron's....but the main success came from the British passion for the Civil Service, they provided the massive logistic backup needed to run the entire system, multiple backup, spare resources, and a large female based staff!!

The short wave length was a winner in aircraft, it work well in bombers later in the war, and for the bomber guidance systems using ranging by radar.

My own source was my father who worked on Radar Development in the war, and was a part time developer of TV after the War.

Thanks for the offer, but I found a stock and bought it!! now in the fridge!

Stephen.

[philbirch]

Fascinating info. Thanks!!

[daveh]

We have mentioned before on this site "Green Beach" the book of the (mainly) Canadian raid on Dieppe in August 1942 (by James Leasor - his son posted on here too). It seems the one success on the raid was obtaining information about the German Warzberg radar system and coming away with one of the magnetrons (if I recall correctly). The Warzberg had a much shorter wavelength (and range) than Freya,

[Stephen]

That Bruneval raid was designed to confirm the capabilities of the improved Warzberg system, and the British were fearful that the Germans had got the information on the short wavelength magnetron. Fortunately they had not, and also failed to back up the radar, for instance the unit reported by land line to headquarters, then on to the Luftwaffe, but the British duplicated all information, and dealt with it instantly to the RAF. It seems the Luftwaffe wanted control direct and arguments abounded in the German system as to who ran it, or benefited from the results, very different to the British approach. Also the Germans saw radar as a gun laying device at first, not general defence, as the British did.
The Americans developed radar gun laying capabilities and the British used radar guided guns with American parts, against the V1 doodlebugs, bringing down more than any other method.

Stephen.

[daveh]

There were actually two raids. Bruneval, just up from Le Havre, was in February 1942. The other raid (covered in Green Beach) was part of the Dieppe Raid on 19th August of the same year. The intent was to take and hold the port of Dieppe. That totally failed, but it was always said that much was learned, and put into use almost two years later

Anyway, I have just looked them both up. Where I was wrong, and mixing the two raids up in my mind, was that the Allied forces could not enter the Pourville radar station, but, by cutting its telephone communications, much was learned about where the German radar installations were placed (because their radio transmissions could be intercepted by listening stations).