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Post by genazzano on Feb 13, 2015 6:54:50 GMT -5
Vinf Cerf has warned of an impending digital dark age where little will survive due to the eventual obsolescence of our technology. If there ever was a reason to go back to film, here it is.
David
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truls
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Post by truls on Feb 13, 2015 12:12:45 GMT -5
May be there is no contrast going digital vs film. Both have benefits and disadvantages. It will always be like this as the technology evolves, old technology vs new, or combined.
In the very end there would be nothing left at all...
I think the digital age will learn to develop methods to save data for the future, whether images or documents. I my short travel through life I enjoy both digital and film. I print in my darkroom images on baryte paper, hoping it will last some years.
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Post by genazzano on Feb 13, 2015 14:06:53 GMT -5
I suppose it's not a question of can technology companies develop the means to save obsolete digital formats, but whether it represents a block buster market for them. I would guess that most people who represent the market for technology have a horizon of no more than a few years either way and don't really care. I have piles of digital tapes in my cabinets containing manuscripts that I published, patents and images, none of which are readable any longer. What drives technology today from the point of view of the consumer, is massive markets coupled with the knowledge that the current technology will turn over within 4 to 5 years. Look at digital cameras, or Windows 8 on which I cannot run my Photoshop because it is too "old". Technology moves forward leaving behind the detritus that is our culture.
Anyway, I hope I will be proven wrong but as a former CEO of technology companies, I am very sketical.
David
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 17:49:09 GMT -5
No amount of speculating or wishing is going to bring film back as a major player in photography. Virtually all images captured digitally beginning from day one can still be read or converted.
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Post by julio1fer on Feb 13, 2015 18:18:59 GMT -5
I actually started using film again because I feared the same that Mr. Cerf. I do not know whether it will happen or not; I would bet that JPG files will be readable 100 years from now -- if you still have them in some current hardware. The bits are ethernal. The medium, alas, is not. My B&W archive will last 100 years at least, if my family does not throw it away (which may well happen if they have any sense). In the meantime I happily shoot film. I have film negs from 1913-1917 in 122-size film that are quite useable. Take a look at this little project where I "scanned" some negatives with a P&S digital over a home made light table. It may be film all right, but it is digital technology that allows me to show it around. Long live both film and digital as long as they are used by photographers. |
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truls
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Post by truls on Feb 14, 2015 4:44:37 GMT -5
Is this the link you are referring to, Mr. Cerf warns digital dark age? If we compare to music, all, almost all digital today. So, the sales of old vinyl music media increase... We collectors may extend film production a bit, as we use old film cameras and buy film. julio1fer: Nice project scanning those old negatives, the quality was good, I enjoy watching old pictures. Later in digital age, solutions to preserve digital data will be forced, by individual and governments. Mr. Cerf also had the solution, which eventually will be implemented at some time. We shall not forget we are in the digital childhood. |
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Post by philbirch on Feb 14, 2015 9:04:41 GMT -5
Vinf Cerf has warned of an impending digital dark age where little will survive due to the eventual obsolescence of our technology. If there ever was a reason to go back to film, here it is. David I can't see a link. But I'll add my comment. I have been espousing the use of lab prints for digital images for many years now. They will be a more permanent reminder of our memories. I suppose some time in the future, someone will be able to extract jpg images form media - if they recognised it as such. But to normal folk like my kids digital photos taken on their p&s and phones will just vanish in time. We are taking more photos now than ever in the history of photography. How many will survive? Hardly any is my best guess. Only commercial companies, archives and serious photographers like us will ensure that they survive. Social history will vanish, as these snapshots we take will be far more important then any landscape, still life or flower we may take - no matter how good. I have tens of thousands of digital photos and scans taken over the last 10 years. Only the ones of my family will get or are printed. I dont care what happens to the rest when I am gone. I have them backed up on different media to ensure their survival while I am still alive. In 1973, a colleague at work bought a Philips N1500 VCR. He told me it was the future - and indeed it was. But I asked him how anyone could play the tape - say in 50 years time, as technology would have advanced in that time. They only need to find a player. there will be plenty about he told me. I argued that film (movie) would be a more permanent medium as the images could be viewed without any special electronic equipment. That was rubbished as electronic images are the future and film will be dead within my lifetime. We were both right, in a way. I have one of Jack's N1500 video tapes with an episode of Crossroads on it. I could go to a museum to watch it. But how many people would go to the trouble? The tape will probably be unplayable now. I also have a Betamax tape containing a programme never available on VHS and I'm unable to watch it as commercial converters won't touch it as it's copyright. |
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Post by genazzano on Feb 14, 2015 13:08:01 GMT -5
Sorry but the link to the BBC disappeared or didn't work. Mea maxima culpa. Please, google the name and all the stories will come up.
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Feb 14, 2015 16:33:05 GMT -5
It is the hardware to read digital which causes concern, the software can be arranged quite easily as modern cheaper memory and computing power allows emulation of older systems.
But it is not confined to digital, film still causes issues with cinema film, old colour processes, formats and methods of projection can make a film unavailable.
An example was Jacques Tati's famous and much loved Jour de Fete comedy, always shown in Black and white, with hand coloured additions by Tati himself.
But the film was actually shot in colour at the time!,and in a new French process, but the inventors got the camera and negatives to work, but failed to find a way to print it!! Tati suspected they had problems and he insisted all shots were duplicated in Black and white.
It was 50 years later that digital methods rescued the colour film, they found the colour negatives and analysed them carefully and then coloured it by the infamous colorisation software used on B/white, only in this case they had the coloured negatives as a base to work from.
It worked fine, the result is a subtle pastel colour film, a bit unexpected, but according to Tati's daughter, what her farther had always wanted.
On the other hand software files from the 50's/60 period have been rendered unreadable as the exact methods and machinery do not exist now.
Some of Nasa's woes with early digital image files have been solved by emulations running on modern machines, but the people at Bletchley Computer Museum in the UK, recreating older computers that were once top secret, are having troubles tracing the designs and software details.
Stephen.
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Post by philbirch on Feb 14, 2015 19:13:32 GMT -5
Sorry but the link to the BBC disappeared or didn't work. Mea maxima culpa. Please, google the name and all the stories will come up. Someone on another forum posted a link to the same article. very interesting. |
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Post by genazzano on Feb 15, 2015 13:22:51 GMT -5
After I capture an image, then process it using PS or the like, and finally share with the world the final images, the question of archiving comes up. I don't believe that there are any electronic means of reliably archiving digital images. My final step would be to copy the digital image on film. I would like my great grand children to see what I have made and what the world was like around me.
A few years ago, the Nation Library of Congress used film to archive images. Has that changed?
David
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Feb 15, 2015 14:50:37 GMT -5
The Library of Congress use both film and digital, and say all material is assessed after arriving, as to the best storage, and providing suitable readers for Digital. Micro film is still widely used.
Movies are stored in the relevant film format, but are now duplicated on DVD as well. But as with all archives time marches on, bringing ever more to store, and it can reach a point where the danger is too much material.
However digital does help with this, it is far easier to store in memory, than on paper, but we all know that paper survives pretty well anyway.
It is collections of material and images at home that are most in danger, overlooked and forgotten, or in an early format or needing an original reader, and memory cards do not last forever!
Stephen.
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Feb 16, 2015 14:33:29 GMT -5
After I capture an image, then process it using PS or the like, and finally share with the world the final images, the question of archiving comes up. I don't believe that there are any electronic means of reliably archiving digital images. My final step would be to copy the digital image on film. I would like my great grand children to see what I have made and what the world was like around me. A few years ago, the Nation Library of Congress used film to archive images. Has that changed? David
David, Art supply stores usually have excellent selections of papers in various sizes weights and textures, colours and quality. They are most often used by watercolour painters. There are many attractive surfaces. I think the dealer can advise you about their longevity as that is one thing about which most artists are concerned. They are not usually cheap but must surely be less than photographic papers with their emulsion coatings. Mickey |
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truls
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Post by truls on Feb 19, 2015 2:59:04 GMT -5
I have more fear of other digital dark areas. All Electronics Depends on electricity, so, in case of illnes, the doctor may not be able to find the Medical records due to Power outage and everything is on a computer?
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SidW
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Post by SidW on Feb 19, 2015 5:59:34 GMT -5
I have more fear of other digital dark areas. All Electronics Depends on electricity, so, in case of illnes, the doctor may not be able to find the Medical records due to Power outage and everything is on a computer? No-one likes looking down that road. Back to horses instead of motorcars. Sailing ships instead of aeroplanes. No heating. |
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