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Post by Randy on Sept 26, 2005 22:31:50 GMT -5
Recently Bob (vintageslrs) and I were going through all the different cameras made for other companies by camera makers COSINA and CHINON. After some research with my own camera and on the web, I'd like to offer these examples. These three cameras were made by COSINA CAMERA LTD of Japan, the Ricoh being the oldest and the Vivitar being the newest.  This is the ARGUS/COSINA 1000 STL. If you look at this camera in depth, you'll see it has a COPAL metal shutter, and the PC Flash terminals are on the end of the top plate on the left side holding the camera.   Except for the location of the shutter speed dial on the Ricoh, the cameras are pretty much the same.   Here is the Vivitar 220SL, and it's a virtual clone of the Argus. Maybe somebody else here on the board can add to this list of COSINA clones? |
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Post by Rachel on Sept 27, 2005 8:57:30 GMT -5
The Argus/Cosina looks a little Mamiya-ish to me.
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Post by vintageslrs on Sept 27, 2005 9:26:48 GMT -5
Randy
yes. the Cosina cameras really intrigue me. At first it was just a theory we have all heard about certain Japanese industries.
And now we have some proof. It is amazing to me that some greatly respected camera companies put their name on products produced by Cosina. Actually it must say something positive about Cosina, that these highly respected companies risked their hard fought reputations by putting their nameplates on Cosina's products.
The Cosina generation of SLRs that were smaller, lighter and were kinda between the electronic and mechanical cameras interest me. I like the fact that most of these had some of the electronic advantages BUT did NOT require a battery to operate the shutter.
I kinda think that might be the best kind of hybrid.
Anyway, the Cosina style CT-1 is seen also (with variations as to the specific manufacturers specs) as the Canon T-60, Nikon FM-10, Olympus OM-2000, Ricoh Super 2, Yashica FX-3 Super 2000, Carena CX-300 and more than one of the Vivitar SLRs of that era. And I'm sure there are many more ------we just haven't documented them yet. As I said earlier--this does fascinate me! Anyone else please add to this list if you can. And is it just me who is amazed that Canon and Nikon would trust Cosina enough to risk their lofty reputations?
Anyway, it's all good fun and more knowledge and that can't be bad right?---LOL.
Bob
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Post by herron on Sept 27, 2005 11:22:27 GMT -5
Bob: One of the things I discovered in my information-collecting about Mamiya cameras was the amount of "cooperation" that went on in Japanese industry between manufacturers (we have a tendency to call the same thing here "collusion"). Mamiya produced a version of their Auto-Lux for Canon as the Canonet, and they shared some camera designs and production with Ricoh for some of their Singlex models, and Mamiya actually produced a version of their Mamiya Prismat NP as the Nikkorex F for Nippon Kogaku (Nikon), using the first vertical-traveling metal Copal Square shutter and a Nikon F-mount (see the Nikon Historical Society page at www.nikonhs.org/article_archive/quest.htmlfor more information). A version was also sold in Germany as the Nikkor J. I have never found any definitive information that tells me Mamiya made cameras for Chinon/Cosina, or vice versa...but it wouldn't actually surprise me too much if it turns out they did. By the way, isn't Cosina the company that bought the rights to the Voigtlander name, and now produces those very nice Voigtlander Bessa rangefinders? |
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Post by vintageslrs on Sept 27, 2005 12:11:59 GMT -5
Ron
yes I believe you are correct---they are now producing the Voigtlander Bessa rangefinders.
and yes the "co-operation" was rather amazing.
I have heard but haven't found proof yet that Cosina at sometime produced an SLR for Miranda...but haven't heard anything yet concerning them producing one for Mamiya.
Bob
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Post by paulatukcamera on Sept 27, 2005 12:36:49 GMT -5
Forgive me for mentioning the "R" word in this topic, but there is more of a link here than elsewhere. I genuinely don't know the answer here, but I have two cameras - a Minolta Hi-Matic 7s ll and a Konica S3 in front of me. They could have come out of the same factory. Also in front of me is Vivitar Catalogue with the Model 35ES which could be a clone of the Konica. The Revue 400SE was another Now you see the line of my thinking. Vivitar + Cosina - well known cohabiters! I also have only one Cosina catalogue and it shows the Compact 35S which is, admittedly not a match, but there are some design clues - strap eyelets, for example are identical (OK, not proof, could have come from the same eyelet manufacturer!) So - is it possible? I've just found out that they made the GAF Memo 35EE, so it is plausible that they did the same thing with rangefinders as SLRS There is another man thinking the same thoughts here: I think that Cosina made this camera for Vivitar and Foto-Quelle, Read his account of why he feels they made Rokkor lenses as well: homepage.mac.com/mattdenton/photo/cameras/vivitar_35es.htmlWell then? Fact or Fiction? Paul |
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Post by Rachel on Sept 27, 2005 12:44:46 GMT -5
yes I believe you are correct---they are now producing the Voigtlander Bessa rangefinders. And the Bessaflex fully mechanical SLR with M42 lens fitting. |
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Sept 27, 2005 13:05:05 GMT -5
Hi,
I've followed this thread with interest, and I must say I'm not at all surprised about the interchange of camera bodies, shutter, lenses or even complete cameras in the Japanese industry. I think, as in other industries, it's a matter of development and tooling costs.
It's the same in the computer industry. Check on how many people make 'engines' that go in laser printers. You might be surprised at how many 'makers' use Canon engines, and how many computer makers fit bought-in motherboards, hard discs, power supplies and, yes, even complete computers. The consumer electronics industry is similar.
In these days of sky-high development costs and costs of automatic machine tooling it just wouldn't be economically viable for four or five different manufacturers to duplicate, triplicate or quadruplicate this with, say, four or five different models all aimed at a particular market segment.
Provided Canon and Nikon were satisfied with the quality of the cameras offered by Cosina why not just duplicate the marketing costs instead of the whole expenditure.
Another point is that some 'names' sell better in different parts of the world. If it were not for this type of co-operation many high-tech consumer goods would cost the public far more than they do.
It's interesting sorting it all out, though, isn't it?
Peter
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Post by vintageslrs on Sept 27, 2005 13:07:28 GMT -5
Paul
It is very possible and even likely that Cosina also made rangefinders for some of the big name camera companies.
To my knowledge they never made any SLRs for Minolta.....but perhaps they did make a rangefinder for them at sometime.
I also don't believe they ever made any lenses for Minolta SLRs, but maybe as an integral part of a rangefinder, they did? We don't know for sure but it sure is fun to speculate, isn't it?
Bob
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Post by Randy on Sept 27, 2005 18:10:11 GMT -5
Cosina made the Mamiya camera that was mentioned, not the other way around. Also worth mentioning, both Canon and Mamiya cameras were imported to the US by Bell & Howell. Also, the Leica R4 is the same thing as a Minolta XE-7 albeit the lens mounts are different, both share design by Leitz.
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Post by vintageslrs on Sept 27, 2005 18:38:25 GMT -5
OK Randy, so we can add Mamiya to the list of "brands" that Cosina made products for.
And I knew about the shared design between Minolta and Leica on those models but tell me......were they made in the same factory like the Cosina situation or was it just the design that was the same but manufactured by each respective company separately?
To me there is difference.
Bob
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Post by Randy on Sept 27, 2005 18:48:01 GMT -5
OK Randy, so we can add Mamiya to the list of "brands" that Cosina made products for. And I knew about the shared design between Minolta and Leica on those models but tell me......were they made in the same factory like the Cosina situation or was it just the design that was the same but manufactured by each respective company separately? To me there is difference. Bob The information I've found says both were made by Leitz Camera Works. I think Leitz owns Leica. |
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Post by vintageslrs on Sept 27, 2005 18:57:41 GMT -5
Ah OK.
So it is just like the Cosina situation................
one company making them and branding them accordingly.
Very cool. And I always thought that it was quite a feather in Minolta's cap!
Bob
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Post by Randy on Sept 27, 2005 22:11:16 GMT -5
Bob, I sent you the information site. The Leica R3 was a joint effort between Leitz and Minolta, and that developed into the XE-7. Further collusion between Leitz and Minolta saw the R4 Leica, the R5, and R6. The Minolta version was the XE-1 and later the XD series. A Leica R6 and Minolta XD-11 are based on the same camera body.
Here's another interesting bit of info...Hanimex commissioned Praktica and Chinon to produce their cameras, ie the Hanimex/Praktica Super TL. Hanimex eventually went on to take over Vivitar Corporation.
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Post by vintageslrs on Sept 27, 2005 22:25:43 GMT -5
Randy
I got the stuff you sent. Very good!! thanks!
And as far as Hanimex ..............well here's a list of Cosina made SLRs :
COSINA CT-1
COSINA CX-2
ARGUS STL1000
RICOH NG something
VIVITAR 220SL
CANON T60
NIKON FM-10
NIKON FE-10
OLYMPUS OM-2000
RICOH KR-5 SUPER2
YASHICA FX3 SUPER 2000
CARENA CX-300
EXAKTA TWIN TL
MIRANDA MS-1
CAVALIER MSTL
COSINA HI-LITE
VIVITAR 420SL
VIVITAR 650SL
HANIMEX DR-1
ELICAR MN-1
RICOH SINGLEX TLS
SEARS TLS
NIKKOREX F
SEARS SL2
PRINZFLEX SUPER TTL
PENTAX P30T
this is still a work in progress........on-going............I will continue to add to it as I do more research.
Bob
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