F.Deckel-Munchen camera

[majicman]

This has been a fantastic week for finding the type of cameras I like to collect. My wife and I walked by a coin store today when she says look, and there in the window was two old cameras with a price tag of $25.00 each. so after asking my financial adviser if it was OK I went in to begin the bargaining session. After pointing out the obvious problems with the cameras I got him down to $30.00 for both which at $15.00 each it was worth that to me. This one is an old box camera I'm not sure what size film yet I don't see any markings on it. What it does say is F.Deckel-Munchen Compur. The lens says Meyer Gorlitz Nr.855279 Trioplan 1:3.5 F=7.3 cm I haven't been able to find any information on this camera yet Do you guys know anything about this one.

[dbscams]

I have a camera that looks very simular. It has a MeyerGorlitz #868747. It has some sort of attachment at the bottom of the camera that looks really odd ( HR in a circle) serial #365341. If I can ever figure out how to work my new digital camera Ill send a picture. Meanwhile any info I can get Id appreciate!!!!!!

[mickeyobe]

I am sure others on this site can tell you more than I.
With a focal length lens of7.3 cm it probably uses 120 or 620 film and makes a 2-1/4" (6cm) square negative.
It is a twin lens reflex. The top should open up to reveal a ground glass for focusing.

Your photos are rather dark and not quite sharp enough to reveal much detail, especially the first one. Could you re-shoot it?

Mickey

[daveh]

Mickey,

The photos pre-date dbscams - almost 3 years since majicman put them up.




I little knowledge about the camera (well nothing really). I'm sure PeterW, MIK (Photax) and some of the others will know significantly more.

Welcome by the way.

Dave.

[PeterW]

Magicman:

Interesting camera.

Deckel was the company in Munich (Munchen) that made Compur shutters. They never made any cameras. On earlier Compurs the speeds were set by a dial at the top of the shutter, but in 1929 Deckel changed to the rim-set design with a plated rim round the shutter to change the speeds, so your camera was made after 1929.

On the body of the shutter, behind the speed rim at about 10 o’clock looking at the front of the camera, there should be a serial number. If you can post this, I might be able to date the shutter more accurately.

On the top, the depth of focus (sic) table is in English, so either camera was made in England or the US, or was made just for export to the UK and US. (The maker really meant depth of field, not depth of focus)

I can’t make out if it is a true twin-lens reflex on which the taking and viewing lenses focus together, or a pseudo TLR on which just the taking lens focuses. I suspect it may be the latter.

I have seen three red film-counting widows in the back of a camera only once before. For quite a short time, until Rollei persuaded film makers to include a 1 to 12 series on their backing papers, one or two makers turned out TLR or pseudo TLR cameras with three red windows.

I may be mistaken because memory is fickle, but I think the odd numbers 1, 3, 5 etc, on the backing paper were used in the bottom and top windows, and the even numbers 2, 4, 6 etc , in the middle window. This would give 12 exposures: 1, 3, 5, 7 + 2, 4, 6, 8 + 1, 3, 5, 7. There seem to be some numbers by the side of each window which may (or may not) confirm this.

You’ll probably find the sliding catch by the side of the windows draws a shutter across them. This was to protect the film, particularly the new panchromatic films that were starting to appear, from fogging in the light through the red windows. Backing papers were nothing like as opaque in those days as they became later.

If you open the top you can check whether or not the viewing lens focuses with the taking lens. If it doesn’t, it’s just a glorified large viewfinder.

There will be a catch somewhere, possibly underneath(?) to let you open the back, or the base and back together. Then you can check the film size which I suspect is 120. You may even be lucky enough to find the maker’s name inside somewhere.

Sorry I couldn’t be more definite in identification.

PeterW

[photax]

Hi !

The pictured camera shows definitely a Reflecta, made by C.Richter Camera Works in Germany in the mid 1930`s. The Reflecta models have many different lens and shutter combinations, even Meyer Goerlitz/F.Deckel.

MIK

[PeterW]

MIK,

Thanks for rescuing my terrible memory. I really should have remembered it was a Reflecta because I've got one packed away in a box somewhere.

Not just that, but when I first got it I put a piece about it on my camera website! .

Here's a not very good picture of it, taken when I first got it.



About two years ago, I found out quite a lot more about it and rewrote the words intending to substitute them for those on my website, but I somehow never got around to it. If anyone wants to plough through my rambling, here it is:

"I was indulging in my usual weekend pastime of rooting around secondhand and junk stalls in a market and saw at the back of a stall a rather tatty and faded canvas camera case. It was just like hundreds of other cases for cheap box cameras, and its condition made me suppose that inside, as I’d found many times before, was yet another cardboard box camera probably the worse for wear.

Later, when I was sitting in the market café having a cup of tea, something kept niggling in the back of my mind telling me that I ought to go back and have another look. It’s a sort of sixth sense that, if you’re an inveterate and unrepentant junk stall prowler like me, you develop over the years.

I went back, and as soon as I picked the case up I knew there wasn’t a cardboard box camera inside. It was far too heavy. Inside I found a twin lens reflex with the name Reflecta, one that I hadn’t come across before. I was intrigued, and looked at the tie-on price label.

The price was about the same as you would expect to pay for a decent box camera so I bought it without really examining it very closely except to note that it had a Prontor II shutter and that both lenses focused together so it was a genuine TLR and not just a box camera pretending to be one.

Back home I set out to find out who made it and found that it was made by the old established company Welta Kamerawerke in Freital, though one source said it actually made by Kamerawerk Tharandt and sold by Welta.

The name was spelled Reflecta in the 1930s and Reflekta after the war when Welta found itself behind the Iron Curtain and became VEB Welta. After the war the camera went through various model numbers with a variety of lenses and shutters and was also shipped out from the DDR to be sold as an ‘own brand’ camera with names like Peerflekta and Triumfreflex.

I gather that it was also sold before the war by Wirgin in Wiesbaden as the Reporter so it seems to have had a number of guises and aliases.

So after that, what’s it like? Well, it’s all metal, reasonably well made but not top quality by any standards, and it could do with some gentle cosmetic attention. The two lenses and the shutter move back and forth for focusing when you move a lever on the front and the release is the usual lever on the side of the Prontor which runs from 1 sec to 1/175 sec.

The cocking lever is at the top quite tight under the viewing lens, which makes it a little fiddly to cock the shutter till you get used using just your fingertip. The taking and viewing lenses appear to be the same, f/4.5 anastigmats, which probably means triplets, labelled Nedar which is a name I’ve not come across before and isn’t mentioned in Neil Wright’s Vade Mecum so I’ve no idea who made them.

The picture size is the usual 6x6 cm, but there are three, yes three, red windows in the back. It’s the only camera I’ve come across with three. The bottom one is marked 1,3,5,7; the middle one 2,4,6,8 and the top one again 1,3,5,7. I can only assume that these were used before the numbers 1 to 12 became a standard on 120 backing paper. The back opens with a simple spring catch. When I first opened it I wondered how you got a film loaded in it, then I found you have to pull out the winding key and lift the whole inside out, just like a box camera. The shutter’s a little slow on its two slowest speeds but it works well and I haven’t taken it apart to clean and lube it. The next stage will be some cosmetic attention.

Since writing the above I have found out more about the Relecta’s origin. It was designed by Ferdinand Merkel in Tharandt but his camera company went bankrupt in the 1929-1930 depression before it could go into production. The company was taken over by C Richter. This was a lady, Charlotte Richter who, with her husband Fritz, set up C. Richter Camerawerke. This is the only instance I’ve come across of a lady heading a camera maker. They made the Reflecta from 1930/31 up until 1939 when the company was directed into armaments work.

After the war, with Tharandt in the eastern zone of Germany, the factory was dismantled by the Russians, as were some other factories which had been engaged in armaments work. The Richters moved to western Germany, and the Reflecta seems to have been transferred to Welta, which later became VEB Welta.

After the war the camera was continued for a time in much the same form as the pre-war model but now the name was spelled Reflekta with a k instead of a c.

Thanks to Stephen at Retrophotography for that information."

Thanks again, Mik, for waking me up. My mind must have been asleep!

PeterW

[dbscams]

I have figured out some of the functions of my point and shoot and hope I can get picture of my Trumpfreflex to you all. The unusual part of the camera is the attachment at the bottom that looks like a miniature gas cylindar marked HR #365341. You can tell Im not much on picture taking, but Ive collected a lot of vintage cameras and get very curious when I find one that is different.Thanks for all the imput. DB

[mickeyobe]

Feb 11, 2011 14:51:50 GMT -5 @dbscams said:

You can tell Im not much on picture taking, but Ive collected a lot of vintage cameras and get very curious when I find one that is different.Thanks for all the imput. DB

DB,

You have just described many of us.

Mickey

[dbscams]

Mickey,
Please, give me a clue as to how to get my picture to this web site. Sorry, to be a pain, but Im learning. Before long I might be able to chew gum while Im on the computer!!!!
DB

[photax]

Hi !

Here is my 1936 Reflecta with F.Deckel Compur shutter and Meyer Goerlitz Trioplan 1:3.5/7.3cm.



And the Reflekta II made by Welta VEB from 1952.



Peter, have many thanks for telling us the history of this camera

DB, never seen such an attachement, sounds very interesting.

MIK

[daveh]

db,

I'm not sure if there is a sample page to show how to do it.

You can use "attachment" just top left of the reply box (not the quick reply, which is fairly limited but the <reply> which is to the bottom right of the last post). If you press <browse> you can search you hard drive for what you want.

OR

sign up to the likes of imageshack - upload photo - then use the direct code - copy and past this in between [ img ] [ /img ] which comes up when you press the photo box button (4th from left lower row in the "Add Tags" above).


Note I have left a space round each img, so it doesn't try to read it as a photo if I don't it ends up as [/img]

That is even stranger: it does show up as typed- it normally won't post to a forum.

Have a go. Best of luck - and look forward to seeing the photos.

Dave.

[mickeyobe]

db,

If Dave's method works for you by all means use it. It is much shorter and simpler than my route.

If it doesn't work let me know and I will go through the exercise step by tedious step.

I have an i Mac and use Photobucket which may make a difference.

As for chewing gum while computing - I am afraid to try that.

Good luck.
Mickey

Now I am going to see if I can use Dave's system with my Mac.

[dbscams]

Mickey,
OK, so I opened an account at PhotoBucket and now Im trying to find out how to get the right pictures to the right place (here). I am really getting an education in "how-to's"
DB

[mickeyobe]

DB,

I assume you are using some programme in which to store your photos. I use Apple's iPhoto. I hope the steps are the same for whatever you are using.

In Photobucket click on the little green Upload Now Box near the top of the page.
Then on the green Select Photos and Videos box and click on it.
This should take you to the programme that contains your pictures.
Click on your picture.
Click on Open at the bottom right of your screen.
Now wait patiently until a small copy of your photo appears at the left of the screen
Click on the picture.
A larger photo will appear.
To its right is a list. Click on the box beside IMG. It will turn yellow and the word "copied" will appear.
Your picture is now stored in "Edit" at the top of your screen.
Go to Camera collector and log in.
Go to the thread you desire.
Go to the white box at the bottom of all the entries on the last page of the thread.
Put your cursor in that box and, perhaps, click it down a line or two to leave space above your photo for some copy. You may always add or subtract lines at any time.
Bring your cursor to the next blank line and click.
Click on Edit and then in the drop down box click on paste.
The image code will appear in the white box.
You may now type in any copy you wish above or below the Image code.
When you click on Post or Preview your image will magically appear where the image code was.

Good luck,

Mickey