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Post by kiev4a on Nov 28, 2006 12:01:33 GMT -5
Got to compare the Nikon D80 and a Canon DSLR the other day at Costco. I think the Canon was a Model 30-something--a step above the digital Rebel somewhere between the Nikon D80 and the D200, I suppose. I was more impressed with the Canon--especially it's huge viewing screen in the back. Also had a little more weight to it than the D80 (a good thing IMO). My problem is all my lenses are Nikkors. I know Canon has an adapter for Nikon lenses but don't know anything about how well they meter in that mode.
Unfortunately, I can't afford either camera right now unless I sold a whole bunch of my gear, which I don't want to do. So I guess I will continue to slog along in analog for awhile.
Sigh!
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bobm
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Post by bobm on Nov 28, 2006 14:18:19 GMT -5
The Canon you looked at Wayne, sounds like the 30D - re the metering, I have an M42-EOS adapter for my 5D which allows manual stop-down metering but obviously no AF. I'd imagine the EOS-Nikon adapter would be similar but you'd need to use manual Nikkor lenses the same as I have to with M42.
It has to be said that while there's not that much between Canon and Nikon regarding DSLR bodies, Canon do make better teles than Nikon, but Nikon make better wides....
This is why I'm seriously considering getting a EOS-Nikon adapter so I can use a Nikon WA.
The digital camera market tends to bring out a new improved model every year or so, which generally equates to more megapixels at a lesser cost. What this means is that you're not missing out on too much by hanging off, and you probably will only need a body at that...
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Post by kiev4a on Nov 28, 2006 16:13:58 GMT -5
The Canon I looked at comes with a kit zoom. The price online seems to match the one at Costco. The only thing that bothers me is I could have sworn the on at Costco was 12 megapixels and the 30D description says it's 8.2 megapixels. I must have read the store info wrong.
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bobm
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Post by bobm on Nov 28, 2006 17:27:50 GMT -5
The only Canon DSLR with a 12mp sensor is the EOS 5D - the new 400D (Digital Rebel XTi) is 10.2mp, the 350D (Digital Rebel) is 8.2 as is the 30D. The two 1D models are 8.2mp and 16.7mp.
The 350D and the 400D both come with an EF-S 18-55mm kit lens, but I'm not sure if the 30D does. The 5D is usually body only, although there was a kit featuring the EF 24-105L being offered some time back.
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Post by byuphoto on Nov 28, 2006 17:28:51 GMT -5
If it was 12 MP it had to be the full frame 5D and would cost around $3000 The current Canon line is the 10 MP Rebel XTi, 8 MP 30D, 12 MP 5D, 8MP 1D MKIIn and the 16 MP 1DsMKII
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SidW
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Post by SidW on Nov 28, 2006 19:43:29 GMT -5
....The digital camera market tends to bring out a new improved model every year or so, which generally equates to more megapixels at a lesser cost. What this means is that you're not missing out on too much by hanging off, and you probably will only need a body at that... I read in some review recently that sensor technology is hitting the ceiling at around 12MPixels, and that future improvements will be in noise ratings (digital noise is like emulsion grain on film). Noise doesn't get mentioned much but is important for your photographic pleasure, and more important than pixel counts if you're enlarging a cropped image, in my experience. I have the 20D and noise ratings are excellent even at 32ASA, and I hear the 30D is the same. More noise is partly what helps make the Canon Rebel cameras (300D, 350D, 400D) into cheaper budget alternatives, along with less robust bodies. They have to cut corners somewhere. |
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bobm
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Post by bobm on Nov 29, 2006 5:52:53 GMT -5
Sounds like they might be hitting the limits of APS-C sized sensors there, as the Canon EOS 1Ds MkII is FF and 16.7mp while there is a Mamiya MF with 22mp, with Canon's FF sensors already providing excellent high ISO performance as it is.
One of the reasons I got the 5D, in addition to it being FF, was that excellent noise performance at higher ISO ratings, also the images are very smooth looking with an almost film like appearance.
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Post by nikonbob on Nov 29, 2006 6:21:35 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat in having a raft of Nikon lenses and am still cheesed off at Nikon for not having the backward compatibility of metering older lenses on all their digital cameras not just the D200 and up. I would have bought a D50 long ago but refuse to pay the price of a D200. Nikon has lost me as a customer until things change or the prices drop on compatible models.
I think BobM is right in that the noise issue is with the APS-C sized sensor regarding the upper limit of pixel stuffing. I much prefer my Oly C5050 5mp camera's output to my Pana FZ50 for that reason. Although I much prefer how the Pana operates.
Bob
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bobm
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Post by bobm on Nov 29, 2006 10:14:24 GMT -5
I think that for Nikon to allow that degree of backwards compatibility would, in their eyes, impact quite severely on sales of their current lens range.
Not that that makes it right....
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Post by kiev4a on Nov 29, 2006 11:28:27 GMT -5
Bob:
I agree on the backward compatiblity issue and pricing on the D200 (all digital slrs for that matter). In computers, you get more features every year for less. I believe that will eventually happen with DSLRS after the market reaches a saturation point. The camera manufacturers have to be hauling in huge profits right now considering most of the equipment is actually assembled in China and the materials cost is very minimal.
A couple of examples of how much lower costs are on goods manufactured in China. A full color book, which would cost our company $20 a copy to print in the states, cost about $4, including freight, from China. We just purchased a two-sink granite-topped vanity for our bathroom remodel. Made in China--our cost, less than $800 at Costco. Our son-in-law, who builds cabinets for a living, looked it over. He said to build one of that quality he would have to sell it for $1,400 MINIMUM. He said the granite top alone would cost him $600! I suspect the same pricing formulas can be applied to almost any item manufactured in China.
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Post by nikonbob on Nov 29, 2006 12:05:31 GMT -5
I think that for Nikon to allow that degree of back wards compatibility would, in their eyes, impact quite severely on sales of their current lens range. Not that that makes it right.... I think that is exactly what they are doing but the down side is that if I have to spend that kind of money on a new camera and lenses then I will look at all brands. They could just as easily loose customers that way too. Just a bit short sighted on there part. No brand has a monopoly on what is a good product, there are many to chose from. Pentax digital is looking got to me now. |
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bobm
Contributing Member
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Post by bobm on Nov 29, 2006 14:00:40 GMT -5
Pentax being the only SLR manufacturer who hasn't changed their lens mount - M42 aside....
Problem here being which system does one go for - FF, APS-C or 4/3...?
All have their immediate pros and cons, but you have to ask, will any of these different ""formats" end up as a standard, with the rest possibly falling by the wayside - ala Betamax v VHS?
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Post by nikonbob on Nov 29, 2006 16:40:04 GMT -5
Pentax being the only SLR manufacturer who hasn't changed their lens mount - M42 aside.... Problem here being which system does one go for - FF, APS-C or 4/3...? All have their immediate pros and cons, but you have to ask, will any of these different ""formats" end up as a standard, with the rest possibly falling by the wayside - ala Betamax v VHS? I don't see sensor size non standardization as an immediate problem. Just chose the one appropriate to the enlargement size you usually do. OTH don't go too overboard on expensive lenses so that if your chosen sensor size falls by the wayside you aren't out that much. Nikon has not done a FF model yet and nobody has done one at a reasonable price for armature use. I would like to see that happen while I am still alive and in the market for a DSLR. That is another reason I have stuck to P&S digi cams and not got a DSLR yet. Bob |
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Post by kiev4a on Nov 29, 2006 16:59:38 GMT -5
Pentax being the only SLR manufacturer who hasn't changed their lens mount - M42 aside.... Problem here being which system does one go for - FF, APS-C or 4/3...? All have their immediate pros and cons, but you have to ask, will any of these different ""formats" end up as a standard, with the rest possibly falling by the wayside - ala Betamax v VHS? I don't think you'll ever see a "standard" format in digitals. Coming up with a standard for video tape was essential because they wanted to get the machines into every American home. High end digital cameras as more of a niche market --especially today when the general public idea is "smaller is better". There isn't really any incentive for the various manufactures to get together on a format since it all goes onto a memory card--not onto a certain size of film. |
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casualcollector
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Post by casualcollector on Nov 29, 2006 21:11:22 GMT -5
Full frame sensor vs. some lens compatibility is why I'm holding off on a DSLR. As a devoted Canonite of the manual focus persuasion, a Nikon would be my first choice in DSLR if one of their cameras would work with pre - AI lenses. I have a bunch of old T4 interchangeable mount lenses, but every Nikon I've tried, so far, has refused to work with them. The Canon 5D with adapters is my next choice, but the cost deters me.
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