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Post by John Parry on May 14, 2009 9:57:18 GMT -5
Any of you who are members of Facebook will doubtless have noticed that there are some pretty loony groups on there. Came upon this one by accident. Please note - it does say at the top of the page that it's purely meant as a joke. There's actually some debate as to whether it was written by John Cleese.... www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=2208523152Regards - John
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Post by Rachel on May 14, 2009 11:49:11 GMT -5
John ... I thought that the disclaimer at the end was a bit of a "cop out". Metrification? I haven't done that yet. One of the few advantages of American TV documentries is that I can understand the measurements I thought that ... ise was the US way and ...ize was the UK way but I could be wrong.
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Post by John Parry on May 14, 2009 13:00:24 GMT -5
LOL Rachel - just proves the point. You have an American spellchecker!
Regards - John
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2009 14:32:31 GMT -5
Give us a couple of years. Rejoining the U.K. may look pretty good.
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on May 14, 2009 15:33:34 GMT -5
I am relieved that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is unaware of the existence of Canada.
Oh.By the way. Is it true that Ken Livingstone will have a country estate in Dearborn, Michigan?
Mickey Please don't drum me out of the corps for this.
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on May 14, 2009 18:23:00 GMT -5
Rachel,
The 'ize' ending of words isn't totally an Americanism, though it is sometimes regarded as such.
In' English' English the suffix ise or ize should, historically, depend on the root of the word.
A rule still used by a few English dictionaries goes back to an 18th and 19th century classical education: that words with a Greek root take the ize suffix and those with a Latin root take ise.
However, many publishers' house guides and printers in England often favoured the ize suffix as a generalisation (generalization??) from about 1900 until fairly recently, say the late 1920s and 1930s. Some carried it on till the 1950s.
When I first started in journalism my old editor insisted on ize except for words such as analyse, advertise, advise, arise, compromise and disguise.
Gradually, most publishers' house guides changed to using the suffix ise as the general suffix to fall into line with common usage except on words such as size and prize (to value) - prise has a totally different meaning.
Many dictionaries have followed, using ise as general, with ize given as an alternative ending, and sometimes also as American spelling.
It's commonly supposed that the editors of dictionaries 'set the rules' for spelling, but they don't. They follow common usage where they believe this is sufficiently widespread to warrant a change.
Except of course Webster in America (in 1828 was it?) who, I believe, favoured simplified phonetic spelling - color instead of colour etc - to help the vast influx of immigrants in the 19th century for whom English was not a native language. Even so, I believe 'English' spellings hung on for some years in the New England states.
I find etymology and the derivation of English/American usage quite fascinating. 'English' English has for centuries been enriched by the adoption of words from overseas, many from countries in the old British Empire - verandah and bungalow for example. I suspect that the large number of American programmes on British television has made 'Americanisms' more familiar to people in the UK than 'Englishisms' are to people in the US. Given time I'm sure that many of them will be adopted into 'English' English.
Sorry, there I go, waffling again when I ought to be getting my bedtime cup of hot chocolate (has to be Cadbury's, I can't stand some supermarket own-brands).
PeterW
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casualcollector
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Post by casualcollector on May 14, 2009 19:05:17 GMT -5
They'll have to prise the prize from my grasp!
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Post by Rachel on May 15, 2009 15:25:22 GMT -5
Rachel, The 'ize' ending of words isn't totally an Americanism, though it is sometimes regarded as such. In' English' English the suffix ise or ize should, historically, depend on the root of the word. ............................................................................................... PeterW Thanks Peter. That's very interesting. My "Shorter Oxford" shows some words with both spellings as valid so I thought that it wasn't so straight forward.
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SidW
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Post by SidW on May 17, 2009 18:46:08 GMT -5
We were allowed to write s or z at school, provided we were consistent (late 1940s). I find now I tend to write -ise by hand but type -ize. Preprogrammed fingers?
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on May 18, 2009 1:47:07 GMT -5
S & Z
I think it is high time that some responsible group imposed sensible and binding regulations to govern this troublesome question.
As a Canadian who is caught between the two worlds I offer the simplest and most logical solution.
So .... henceforth and forever more let the pronunciations be as follows:
If it is pronounced as in "miss" or "kiss" or "this" or "peanuts" one must use an "S".
If it is pronounce as in "size" or "surprise" or "demise" or "lies" or "words" one must use a "Z".
All in favour say "aye". All oppozed say nothing at all.
So be it.
Mickey
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on May 18, 2009 13:37:48 GMT -5
I felt somehow that Mickey would rize to the occasion.
In the immortal words of the great Durante:
Spring iz sprung, de grass iz riz. I wunda ware de boydyz iz? Deyz on de wing; but datz absoyd bekoz de wing iz on de boyd.
or, if Durante's too highbrow:
Sister Suzy's sewing shirtz for soldierz Such skill at sewing shirtz my shy young sister Suzy showz Some soldiers in epistlze Say they'd sooner sleep on thistlze Than the short serge shirtz for soldierz shy young sister Suzy sews.
PeterW
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on May 18, 2009 19:09:07 GMT -5
Since PeterW has reminded us of the famous wordz of that great philosopher, The Schnoz, it behoovz us to remember hiz greatest contribution to humanity, hiz immortal wordz - "THE NOZE NOZE". We must never forget that.
Goodnight Mrs Kalabash wherever you are.
Mickey
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