Kodak Retina Prototype

[photax]

Hi !

I came across this one at the same museum that shows the Daguerrotype: A prototype of the Kodak Retina. The description card says: The prototype of all Retinas, a unique halfframe ( 18x24 ) camera designed by Dr. August Nagel in 1934. A milestone in camera history. Never knew that there exists a prototype, very interesting item !

MIK

[Randy]

That's an interesting find, I have a Retina Reflex S.

[mickeyobe]

"Never knew that there exists a prototype, very interesting item !
MIK"

It's fully described in McKeown's 12th edition, page 519.

It is so unlike any of the production Retinas except for the octagonal body shape.
It had a film advance lever unlike the production Retinas which, I believe, only acquired that convenience with the Retina Ia (Type 015) in 1951.

It spawned a large family of descendants.

Mickey

[photax]

Hi Mickey !

I should have known that, because the cameras pictured at the cover of the Mc Keowns are also shown at this museum. You are absolutely right: page 519. For the future, I do solemnly swear that I will read my book every day…

MIK

[mickeyobe]

MIK,

I would be lost without my various catalogues. They contain a great deal of information.

Your pictures of the Daguerrotypes in that thread are excellent. Thanks for them.

Mickey

[hsrcdoc]

The Retina camera prototype shown in the first message by photax is not " the prototype of all Retinas ". So much for accurate information from Museum Curators.

The facts are these - this is simply a half frame 35mm prototype Retina.
The lens - a Xenar f:3,5 F=3,5 cm serial number 708459 is a Muster lens which was found to have been manufactured on 29 November 1934 in the Schneider engraving book. Only a single lens was produced for this prototype by Schneider.

Since the Typ 117 Retina camera was first introduced to the public in late July of 1934, this half frame Retina prototype can not be " the prototype of all Retina cameras "

I have personally handled this very prototype in a Munich camera dealer shop in the mid 1990's and I am the guy who published this camera in McKeown's.

Now, if you want to see a true pre-production or null serie Typ 117 Retina camera, go to the Deutsches Museum in Munich, Germany and you will find one of the very first Retina cameras on display. This null serie Typ 117 Retina lacks a body serial number and has a Xenar f:3,5 F=5cm lens serial number 657000. This lens is from the first 100 lenses made for the Typ 117 Retina by Schneider on 30 April 1934 - The lens series was from 656997 to 657096.

If you want to read about this earliest known Typ 117 Retina camera, download this Journal from the Historical Society for Retina Cameras at the following URL.

home.comcast.net/~pam971948/jhsrc117.pdf

Anyone interested in more historical information about Retina cameras can go to this site.

home.comcast.net/~pam971948/site/

The Journals are available for free.

Dave Jentz
Historical Society for Retina Cameras

[photax]

Hi Dave,

Have many thanks for sharing these very interesting weblinks, I will read them carefully. I have been to the German Museum in Munich some years ago, but did not found any cameras. Maybe this depends on the fact that this museum is really spaciously. I will keep my eyes open the next time. The camera on my first picture in fact is described as "the prototype of all retinas" at the Westlicht Museum. Now I learned something new

MIK

[daveh]

Funnily enough I was just going to say that we do tend to believe things that are written as being true then subsequent facts emerge to show that they are not true. Dave I hope you come back regularly to share your knowledge with us.


(As an aside: what annoys me is when a website (or whatever) publishes a "fact" which is wrong and even though this is pointed out to and acknowledged by the authors, they still do not change it from the incorrect entry.)

[nikkortorokkor]

My, but that little half-frame is very pretty.

Collection curators can be very stiff necked about retracting disinformation and often it is not in their interest to do so. It gives both amateur and academic historians something to debate about ad nauseum!

I am almost wholly ignorant about Retinas, but I do know of what is arguably the most famous photo taken on a Retina:



Sherpa Tenzing Norgay photographed by a certain beekeeper on the summit of Mt Everest, 11.30 AM, 29 May, 1953

using this Retina type 118:



Sir Ed's Retina is now in the Otago Museum, Dunedin. The photo of it comes from the website of a Dunedin resident who is a Retina expert, and a Kodak trained repairman to boot. I'll give him a plug since I pinched his image. I haven't used his services, but know people who speak highly of them and his expertise:

homepages.ihug.co.nz/~Srawhiti/index.html

Michael.

[daveh]

"Sir Ed's Retina is now in the Otago Museum......"

That is something worth eye-balling!

[hsrcdoc]

In 2003, I saw Sir Edmund's fabled Typ 118 Retina at a private showing in the bowels of the National Geographic Society in Washington D.C. This was a few weeks before the camera was to go on display for the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the first successful ascent to the top of Mount Everest.

I had spoken with Sir Edmund over the phone several months before and he had me contact a curator in Auckland who then put in me in touch with the National Geographic Society curator. By the way, Sir Edmund was a very nice and kind individual and never let his fame change a very friendly and affable personality.

Now the camera was originally on display at an Auckland Museum and was identified as a Retina II ( which it is obviously not ).

During my visit with the National Geographic folks, I explained the history of this camera and told them to display it as a Typ 118 Retina with Zeiss Tessar lens and COMPUR shutter. If any one is interested, Sir Edmund's Typ 118 Retina camera body serial number is 513460. The Zeiss Tessar 1:3,5 f=5cm lens Nr. 1274240 mounted in the camera was manufactured in December of 1930, but this Typ 118 Retina was not manufactured until late 1935. The camera has a small custom change from standard production to make it easy to use with the heavy gloves. There is a small extension of some grey metallic lever that was attached to the film advance lever located behind the viewfinder area. This allowed the operation of the film advance with these heavy gloves. Otherwise, it is a standard Typ 118 Retina which was manufactured for an English speaking market.

By the way, the National Geographic Society did listen to me and the camera's display card had it correctly identified as a Typ 118 Retina while it was displayed in Washington D.C.

As for the conversation I had with Sir Edmund, he told me that he purchased the camera used at a second hand shop in Auckland. He said it was a perfect camera for mountaineering at that time, as there where few things that could go wrong or freeze up. Also, he said that he kept the camera warm during the ascent in the pocket of a sweater. The extreme cold on a mountain top will cause static electricity as you advance the film. If the camera became quite cold, the static electricity at film advance would cause lightning-like tracks all over your film.

At the top of Everest, he pulled out the pre-warmed camera, took off his oxygen mask and started to click away. He said he had to take off the mask to properly view and composed his photos. After several minutes without oxygen, he said he was getting a little foggy in the brain and could not remember if he had advanced the film between shots, so he would advance the film to make certain there were no double exposures. He said there were several blank frames on that historic roll of Kodachrome. He told me the exposure he used was f8 at 1/100 sec. After 10 to 15 minutes, the oxygen mask was replaced and they started down. As to why there are no pictures of Sir Edmund, He told me that Sherpa Tensing had little skill at photography and the top of Mount Everest was no place to start teaching photography.

Sir Edmund also told me that he took this same camera on his Antarctic expedition.

One more thing, there were at least two other Retina cameras on that Everest expedition and a Retinette. I have been working to track them down. One Retina belonged to Alfred Gregory and you can find many of Alfred Gregory and Sir Edmund's photos in Alfred Gregory book about the Everest Expedition.

Later, Retinators,

Dave Jentz
Historical Society for Retina Cameras

[nikkortorokkor]

Thank you Dave for your filling in of the details.

I had heard some, though not all of them, before, especially the 2nd hand purchase. It is not surprising. New Zealand had extremely tight import regulations at the time, and new domestically purchased cameras of the Retina's quality would have seriously bit into the funds of an amateur climber and "ordinary bloke" such as the young Edmund Hilary.

I had heard that the choice of the Retina was a little pot luck, but I don't think that could be true given the design's suitability for expedition use. Strong, compact and self-protecting - not a bad combination.

I have seen many artifacts from the Everest and Trans-Antarctic expeditions. Sir Ed's oxygen kit, blue striped sun hat, parka, ice axe and other items are on display at the Canterbury Museum (Christchurch). But I have yet to "eyeball" the Retina.

Please excuse my use of the familiar contraction of Edmund. Every Kiwi (New Zealander) remembers him as "Sir Ed", we all felt we could stop and talk to him in the street and that he would respond kindly. Anyone whose first laconic words after climbing Everest were "We knocked the b@st@rd off" was our kind of bloke. His lifelong philanthropy only increased his status as the best we've produced.

Back to cameras!

[daveh]

I wonder if they will ever find the camera from the ill-fated Mallory- Irvine climb. Both of them had local (to me) connections.

It seems strange now, in the days of sponsorship and professionalism, that he took his own camera and a second hand one at that. I wonder if whoever sold it knew what it went on to achieve.



Dave, very interesting, thanks.

[Deleted]

David. Fascinating information. I would have thought the leaf shutter cameras would have been more likely to "stick" in cold weather.

Wayne