Just a little grumble

[PeterW]

Hi all,

I've got a small personal grumble, sounding off if you like. Not, I'm very pleased to say, anything to do with Camera Collector, but I felt like sounding off to someone about it.

I'm a member of several other camera-related forums even though I'm not very active on them, either because my collecting interests have changed or because my arthritic fingers don't allow much delving into a camera's internals these days.

But I like to keep in touich with what's happeneing in the camera collecting and amateur repair world, so I visit the forums and "lurk".

I was saddened to see this week that, yet again, an exchange of "personal flaming" posts has broken out on one of them with some really nasty attitudes.

Moderators don't seem to want to be involved in stamping out this sort of thing.

In the past few months I've come across replies which started something like: "It's obvious you know very little about this elementary subject".

Of course the poor guy didn't or he wouldn't have posted the question, even if it was elementary and he'd got his facts wrong. He came back in what I thought was a very calm and restrained manner only to get yet more flaming.

Still the moderators did nothing and it was left to other members to calm the situation and make some helpful replies.

Again, on a different forum a month or two ago a genuine query about focal lengths brought a terse reply something like "If you don't know the simple answer read a first-year book on basic photography".

Once again it was left to other more friendly members to post some helpful replies. The moderators did nothing.

What are moderators for, for Goodness' sake?

Thank goodness members of Camera Collector are too friendly and helpful to make such sarcastically superior self-opinionated replies.

If anyone ever did then I or, I'm sure, one of the other moderators, would quickly delete the offensive replies and send the perpetrators a warning. Let's keep things that way.

OK, sound off over. I feel better now. Let's get back to more interesting postings.

PeterW

[Randy]

Peter, click your heels together and repeat after me, "there's no place like home, there's no place like home". ;D

[colray]

Peter and that's why I'm glad I have found this place :)Colin

[nikkortorokkor]

Me too.

One example of this is discussion of the Fuji FX100.

I started a discussion here because I'm genuinely interested in the camera, but I know others here feel it is too expensive. We've 'talked' about it, expressed our opinions and left it at that. Vive la différence! It was also genuinely helpful in making me think about my own reasons for wanting this camera.

My passion, however, being unabated & unfulfilled, I've occasionally googled the elusive FX100 & followed the scuttlebutt.

Yesterday I came across the same discussion (see, want, must-have versus too-expensive) on another forum. Some posters had genuine points to make (e.g., "I've paid more for a good prime lens than that, ergo, if the lens is great, the price is OK), but the discussion was marred by ungentlemanly language. (e.g., "you're an idiot, the camera is too expensive", "no it's not, you are obviously the idiot"). Some forum members were highly disgruntled by this schoolboy-like behaviour.

I, for one, have had my ignorant mistakes gently corrected by Peter W. He's never called me names or belittled me for my lack of knowledge. That is why, even though life drags me away sometimes, I enjoy returning to this Group for knowledge and friendship.

Coincidentally, I have a professional interest in this problem/issue. I'm currently writing a literature review for an academic work dealing with 'real' versus 'virtual' leisure organisations. Certainly flame wars are a point of difference.

Michael.

[PeterW]

Michael,

I, for one, have had my ignorant mistakes gently corrected by Peter W.

I don't recall your making any ignorant mistakes, Michael, maybe a couple of wrong assumptions.

With the boot on the other foot, I have made plenty of wrong assumptions over the years, particularly with my mis-translation of German documents about camera makers into English.

Some years ago I wrote a piece for the journal of Zeiss Historica, a quite learned group of people mainly in the US, about the career of the, to my mind, under-rated designer Dr. August Nagel.

I tried to make it clear that in some cases I was working from secondary sources and making a number of assumptions, putting two and two together and possibly getting four and half as the answer.

After it was published I had a number of emails from members of Zeiss Historica both in the US and Europe saying I had helped to fit some pieces of a jigsaw into place, but had gone wrong in several other places. Some attached scans of some original Zeiss documents I had never seen before which contained valuable information.

These emails were sent in the friendliest possible way, and I was really grateful for them.

That's how researchers in any field learn, not by flaming.

Someone puts forward a hypothesis, and others get in touch with little bits of primary source or even first-hand information which either confirm or correct it.

I've also had help from MIK in translating a particularly tricky (for me) cutting about August Nagel from a 1928 German newspaper.

I'm still collecting information about August Nagel with a view to putting it on my website later this year (the plans I have for this year, and we're a quarter of the way through it already!)

There aren't any ignorant questions, only ignorant answers.

PeterW

[PeterW]

Randy,

Peter, click your heels together and repeat after me, "there's no place like home, there's no place like home".

Jawohl, Herr Oberstgruppenführer. Sie sind korrect! ;D ;D

PeterW

[Randy]

Well actually, I was quoting Dorothy Galen trying to get her way back to Kansas. Glenda the Good Witch told her to do that with the Ruby Slippers.

[colray]

another grumble
it's not only the crap that's dished out on some forums.. but I have found some of them a bit of an "Exclusive Club" if your face fits the group will make you welcome.. if not forget it!

[mickeyobe]

I, too, have quit several forums because of the rudeness of some members or because discussions were allowed to wander unhindered much too far beyond the concerns of the forum.
A tight reign is sometimes needed with just enough slack for members to still feel unrestrained.

Camera Collector perfectly fills the bill. It reminds me of those old movies where the gentleman retires to his club to sit in an overstuffed leather easy chair, smoke a cigar and sip some wine - a get away.
CC is my get away, my leather chair, where I know, thanks to the constant attention and care and sensitivity of the moderators and the members, disagreements are never disputes, where unpleasantness and violation of its sensible and more than liberal rules are not a constant issue.

All the forums to which I have belonged have had members that were willing to go out of their way to provide advice and assistance.
CC is fortunate to have some extraordinary mentors with extensive knowledge who are always eager to help and go well beyond the call of duty even to the always well intentioned kindly poke in the ribs. .
It has become an important part of my day that would be sorely missed if I could not avail myself of its pleasures.

Mickey

P.S Forums or Fora?

[John Farrell]

Mickey - the only problem with overstuffed leather chairs and wine is the inevitable falling asleep!

Forums.

[colray]

Oh and another thing ..some time back I posted on another picture forum one of the moderators used the ID .professor. his one aim in life was p***ing me off by finding ever little mistake in what I had posted..i.e slang .. spelling ...gramer... anything he considered flippant where all fair game.. it gave him great delight pointing out the errors.. the final straw was when he blocked me from making any posting/comment until it was vetted my the moderating team..In my final posting via the moderating team my wish was.. he should go and stick his head up some dead rodents bum...haven't a clue why.. I was BANNED

[mickeyobe]

colray,

"..In my final posting via the moderating team my wish was.. he should go and stick his head up some dead rodents bum...haven't a clue why.. I was BANNED "

It seems like a perfectly reasonable request.

Mickey

[Deleted]

Forums like that are one of the main reasons I seldom use a rangefinder camera (nudge, nudge -- hint, hint).

W.

[SidW]

Mickey, forums. It used to be a latin word but it's become English. Like crocus/crocuses, bonus/bonuses.

There are so many similar loans that no stickler would ever chase you on them all.

For some reason people still get hot under the collar about "data is" and "data are"

[photax]

Hi !

I `ve read similar rude contributions in some German forums ( I never have been a member of any forum before signing up at the Camera Collector ). A while ago I viewed some pictures ( cant remember the forum name ), that a guy took with a Zorki. Not perfect, but well done and interesting photos. The first comment was: Go and get yourself a proper camera ! This post was signed with: Leica-somewhat and a lot of lens names and numbers. Another guy, obviously not a German native speaker was rebuked, because his German was not always grammatically correct ( just like my English here ;D ). I guess the guys writing such comments are exactly the “ I have a big Porsche SUV, I own the road “- people. They simply do not follow the rules and they do not accept people with another point of view. I am not sure if they have fun at all.

This brings a story to my mind. Some years ago, my son was about ten years old, we went to an Air Show to watch the planes and take some pictures. Next to us was also a father with his son at the same age taking pictures and he always shouted at his son ( who had a Hasselblad ! ): You are wrong in doing this and that. He was bullied around by his dad all along. My son had one of my elder SLR`s, no regulations, and had fun in taking pictures and both of us had a great day. He made some blurred shots, but also some great pictures. My son never lost interest in photography and now sometimes he is selling pictures to newspapers. I don’t think that the boy with the Hasselblad still has fun in taking pictures.

That’s the difference at the Camera Collector: It is fun ! Like Mickey, I try to have a look every day. What I appreciate the most about the CC are the members, which I would call friends and the wide range of themes. And not at least that I am fully accepted, although I had doubts about my command of English.

MIK