daveh
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Post by daveh on Apr 4, 2012 8:40:22 GMT -5
Are all the shutter leaves opening and closing properly? Maybe one leaf is sticking some of the time, hence the intermittent nature of the fault. On the other hand, I don't know why the shape of the fogged part is as it is (i.e not going to the full edge of the frame).
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 4, 2012 10:06:29 GMT -5
I would say, that the shutter is working properly. I tried it more than hundred times while looking through the lens ( at different light conditions ). I can't find anything strange. Also the exposure automatic works excellent. A miracle in my opinion. Totally crazy, inventing such a technology, working completely analog. All pictures have been exposed perfectly ... if there wouldn't be those light leaks.
Also ... if there would be something wrong with the shutter, I would assume, that the light leaking effect would be more or less visable at different apertures, but I can't detect such a connection.
This stupid camera really causes me sleepless nights. I hate it, if I don't know something and can't find it out ... hahaha ...
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Post by 33dollars on Apr 4, 2012 11:08:57 GMT -5
The small metal tab is to reset the counter to zero when the door is opened. Also check the door latch. Is the door opened by pulling the rewind handle up, or is there a button to open the door? Are the camera strap lugs tight or loose? What about the rivets that holds the pressure plate spring. Are they tight? Are you using re loadable cassettes or new cassettes. A fatter cassette may stop the door from closing fully. Leaving the door ajar. What is the condition of the bottom plate of camera. Are there screws missing? Is the tripod hole broken? From a cracked thread? Keep looking, I hope you find the problem & remedy it. Its a nice camera to shoot with these days.
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 4, 2012 11:20:42 GMT -5
It is opened by pulling the rewind handle up.
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Post by 33dollars on Apr 4, 2012 11:35:10 GMT -5
Mmmm, it may be the door hinge seal. The film may be exposed after its exposed on the take up spool.
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 4, 2012 11:39:46 GMT -5
But 33dollars ... I taped everything ... of course including the door hinges. There could definitely not have leaked any light through that when shooting the second test film ... but the leaks are there as before
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Post by 33dollars on Apr 4, 2012 11:56:10 GMT -5
I don't have this camera & have been looking at your internal shot of it. What is the baffle inside the film frame before the rear lens?
Gotta pop out & get petrol, Back in a jiffy.
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Apr 4, 2012 13:28:58 GMT -5
berndt,
That small tab is pressed in when the back is closed. The film counter will not operate unless it is depressed. When loading film and advancing it before closing the back the counter will not count. That is as it should be.
33,
The baffle that you describe is shaped like a box with a cut out portion near the lens. Its sides go up to the film plane and its entire back is removed. Mine is a little loose and can be moved slightly with a finger. The further the lens is racked out (focused closer) the more it moves. Mine is all painted a matte black. The one in the photo has shiny spots on the right edge.
Do you suppose?
Mickey
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Post by 33dollars on Apr 4, 2012 13:44:16 GMT -5
You did say that your photographs taken with flash were OK So you used a cable & PC plug. If the images don't have leakage on the perforations it would be coming from film plain forward to lens. Also being a Shikosha shutter, wouldn't it have a switch for flash photography. Maybe the leak is there. So if masking the door had no effect. The light leak is forward of the film plane.
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 4, 2012 21:22:28 GMT -5
33dollars, the camera has no switch for that. You just switch the aperture lever from AUTO to some aperture, you prefer. Then, the camera goes automatically into manual mode and a flash can be used. It seems, that there is no light lealking from this lever. I checked it with a LED flashlight and also fired a strong camera flash from inside the camera into the direction of the lens while being in a dark room. That usually detects the tiniest hole ... but nothing
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Apr 5, 2012 1:01:22 GMT -5
Berndt, It seems to me that logical and sensible tests aren't showing anything up, so you have to ignore everything you have done so far and go back to the start and methodically check every avenue. When all that has failed ( ) get yourself a nice digital camera - they don't have light leak problems. We need to make a complete list of possibilities, from the logical to the illogical and then devise a way of eliminating each one as a source of the problem. I would still favour blocking the area behind the lens as the first step, so no light can come through from either the lens itself or its mounting. Then bombard the rest of the camera with intense light to see if there is any problem to the film. At some stage perhaps try taking the back of and with a ground glass screen in place opening the shutter and seeing if the area of 'flare' can be reproduced on the screen. Mind you, that won't be easy if the camera doesn't have B or T in its settings. As Sherlock Holmes said "It is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgement." He was the most methodical man ever. Holmes would surely find the problem.
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 5, 2012 9:29:50 GMT -5
Dave, I wish, I would be as ingenius as Sherlock Holmes ... or at least as Dr. Watson ? Very well !!! I actually tried that today ... even before reading your excellent comment ... and I shot another test film. What I did, was taping again. I took pictures under the following conditions: 1. Everything taped ( the door and also the filmcounter and ASA window ) 2. Like above but the ASA window untaped 3. Only the door taped ( basically as in the last test before ) 4. Pictures with lens cap mounted 5. Everything taped plus the aperture lever as well 6. Only the counter window taped At all conditions, I forwarded the film directly AFTER taking a picture ... and that's why I decided two more variations: 7. Only counter window taped 8. Nothing taped ... but forwarding the film always immediately BEFORE taking a picture. The result has been ... dissapointing ... or ... I am not capable of making the right conclusions. The light leaking appeared in ALL cases ( or randomly not ) and, what might be the most interesting result, also if the lens is closed. I left the lens cap on and took two pictures after leaving the camera in the sunshine for about a minute. Those pictures look like that: lens cap light leaking by bokuwanihongasuki, on Flickr Remarkable just, that the shape of the light leak seems to be different, if I take a picture from up to down, as in those two pictures: Image33 by bokuwanihongasuki, on Flickr Image16 by bokuwanihongasuki, on Flickr These have been the experiments. So what can we conclude from that ? Being carefully with assumptions and just trying to collect facts, I would say that: It is neither the door nor the counter window nor the ASA window and also not the aperture lever. Therefore, there are actually only two openings in the area of the camera left - both viewer windows, but they should not have any path to the film chamber. Also the bottom plate of the camera does actually not have any connection to the inner part of the body ( I removed it for checking that ). Interesting and a little more difficult - what can we conclude from the lens cap experiment ? From the construction of the camera, I would say, that there can no light leak in from the front lens to the shutter if the lens cap is closed ( it is one closed piece of metal ). Please correct me, if I am wrong, but that would also mean for me, that the light leak can not have been occured during the exposure. The next part in the chain would be the space between the shutter and the inner lens. The aperture is located there ... but I also taped the aperture lever, which practically excludes this area as well. What is left ? The space between the inner lens and the film. I didn't want to sacrifice another fim for your "blocking experiment", so I tried to reverse it. I fired a pretty strong camera flash directly into the film window ( in direction to the lens ). Everything in a completely dark room. I know from similar tests with folders, that even the tiniest hole can not resist this massive light bombardment ... and appears ... but ... nothing. So, Mr. Holmes ... I am running out of ideas I wish, I could believe in ghosts ... because that's, what is probably sitting in this camera The restless soul of the last owner ... hahaha ...
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Apr 5, 2012 13:53:37 GMT -5
My poor camera is getting weary of having its back popped open and a curious eye peering at it. I can see only one direct possible source of light entry to the film chamber - the rewind knob and its shaft. I have not taken the top off. Is there some sort of packing or washer to prevent leakage or does the light tightness depend solely on the close fit of the metal parts? Metal against metal can wear. I have checked mine as best I can without dismantling it but in your case anything may be possible. Now that I compare the picture of your camera with mine I can see that there appears to be a collar of white metal that comes down to the top of the two prongs that fit into the film spool. Yours seems to have slipped down covering the prongs and exposing a red or copper coloured inner shaft. I don't know what holds it in position.Possibly it is threaded. Mickey
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 5, 2012 21:16:43 GMT -5
Mmmh ... I don't know, what it was ( on the picture ), but it seems to be gone. Don't laugh at me, but if I open the camera and look at it again ... it's gone But your picture gave me a new idea. What about those two tiny holes beside the rewinding knob ? I haven't notice them yet. Should there be screws inside ? One hole seems to covered more by a rivet than a screw. One seems to be missing on my camera. I definitely need to take the top off to see, where those lead. Any idea, how to remove the top ? There are no screws, nothing
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Apr 5, 2012 21:24:35 GMT -5
Berndt, I do wonder if sometimes manufacturers don't delight in making each camera different in its assembly to cause maximum problem to anyone who has need to work on them. Presumably if there are holes there, they are there for a reason - if only to let light in! This is turning into a bigger saga than the Vikings ever managed. Dave.
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