Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Jun 30, 2012 23:56:19 GMT -5
I recently noticed, that a modern camera flash does not work on some vintage cameras from 50s and I wonder why  I tried to use two Bencinis ( a Koroll 24s and a Comet S ) and another quite simple constructed Hobix Junior with flash, but all pictures became just black. The shutter is triggering the flash and it fires properly ... but obviously not in the right timing. What all those cameras do have in common is a very simple shutter mechanism ( simplier than a leaf shutter ). Any ideas or explanations on that ? |
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Jul 1, 2012 0:48:45 GMT -5
I recently noticed, that a modern camera flash does not work on some vintage cameras from 50s and I wonder why I tried to use two Bencinis ( a Koroll 24s and a Comet S ) and another quite simple constructed Hobix Junior with flash, but all pictures became just black. The shutter is triggering the flash and it fires properly ... but obviously not in the right timing. What all those cameras do have in common is a very simple shutter mechanism ( simplier than a leaf shutter ). Any ideas or explanations on that ? Probably the cameras are not sychronized for your flashgun. If it is electronic flash you need x sync. It is probable that the flash fired before the shutters had even opened. Electronic flashes have a very short duration of usually 1/1000 sec or less. Flashbulbs have a much longer duration and will reach their peak about when your shutter is wide open. If there is an x sync on your cameras set that. If not use flashbulbs. berndt, you know that. Why am I telling you? Perhaps the cameras' flash contacts are broken or mistimed. Mickey |
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Jul 1, 2012 7:58:23 GMT -5
Sounds logical, Mickey. I don't think, the flash contacts are broken ... but maybe mistimed ... or better, adjusted to the effect you described ( Flashbulbs have a much longer duration and will reach their peak about when your shutter is wide open ). That would make some sense and indeed, it seems that the flash fires before the shutter opens. I became a little bit more clever meanwhile and make a simple test before wasting a film: I look through the lens from the open back of the camera and then, I can see, if the flash fires BEFORE the lens opens. Interesting though, that some cameras ( we are basically talking about the early 50s here, when many cameras didn't have an "x-sync" yet, just a normal flash terminal ) work with modern flash guns and some not ... even they should all be designed for flash bulbs, because there haven't been any electronic flashes at that time ... as far as I know ... And also modern toy cameras. Extremely simple constructed ( everything just plastic and very simple shutter mechanisms ) ... but they all work with electronic flash guns. However ... as flash bulbs are not available ( or affordable ) anymore, those oldies became "daylight cameras" only, I guess  |
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Jul 1, 2012 11:52:02 GMT -5
I would imagine it depends on the accuracy of the flash sync on the camera, and the duration of the electronic flash. Looking up the figures for the different synchronizations:
X, instantaneous; F, 5 milliseconds, M, 20 milliseconds. Electronic flash lasts for 1-20 milliseconds. Thus a camera with X-sync will work with all of these flash guns all of the time, but M sync won't work with any while F sync will work with sometimes.
Using electronic flash on full manual will give the longest duration of flash. On automatic the flash duration will be shorter.
Well, that is how it seems to me.
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jayd
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Post by jayd on Jul 9, 2012 11:23:28 GMT -5
Interesting problem! there must be a good solution, better than opening shutter on bulb and then setting off flash,
Flash bulbs and the 15 and 22V batteries to power the units are scarce and expensive.
Jay
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2012 17:42:53 GMT -5
Some of those older cameras simply weren't designed for electronic flash--in fact there weren't any electronic flashes available (at least to amateur photographers). I have some Soviet gear that was modified to use electronic flash after it left the factory. In fact, modifying a camera for electronic flash is a lot easier than modifying one to use flash bulbs. More recently, when digital point and shoots first came out I discovered my electric slave units wouldn't sync with the E flashes on the P&S--something in the way the digital shutter worked, I guess. Never had the problem with DSLRs, however.
W.
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Jul 9, 2012 22:23:06 GMT -5
There is nothing new under the (artificial) sun. This adjustable flash synchroniser is about 50 years old. It is about 2" long depending on where the sinc is set. Screw it into the cable release socket and plug in the flash gun. Once adjusted it can be locked into position. It is beautiful in its simplicity.  Mickey |
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Jul 9, 2012 23:26:19 GMT -5
That's actually pretty cool !!! How did people adjust it back in the days ? I mean, how do you know, that the flash is synchronized perfectly ?
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Jul 10, 2012 2:39:12 GMT -5
That's actually pretty cool !!! How did people adjust it back in the days ? I mean, how do you know, that the flash is synchronized perfectly ? berndt, I suppose that old, tried and true, scientific method - Trial and Error. I imagine, looking through the lens, while a bulb is fired, to see that perfect white circle. Mickey |
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Jul 10, 2012 2:52:16 GMT -5
Mickey, now you show that, I remember seeing them.
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