Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Jul 13, 2012 21:10:55 GMT -5
This question might have certainly been asked already, but I wonder, if somebody ever regretted not buying a camera and how everybody deals with buying rare cameras in general. It happened, that I watched a camera on Yahooauctions ( the japanese E-Bay ) this week. Not in really good condition, but a little bit of a research in the international and japanese speaking web told me, that this camera ( a japanese TLR ) is obviously so rare, that nobody has seen a surviving unit of it ever ( it is just mentioned in a japanese camera magazine from the late 40s ). The price was at 1 Yen all the time and nobody seemed to be interested. I though "Wow !!! That's my camera." And then, it suddenly went up during the last hours of the auction. Two obviously professional camera dealers started fighting over this camera. That's all not unusual, but ... I had problems, setting a personal price limit for myself, because I had no idea, what such a camera could be worth. There is no reliable price guide for cameras, appearing on an auction once in 50 or 100 years. However, the story ended, that I didn't get it ... and actually regret it now The final price was about $ 100, but of course, I wouldn't know, how high it would have gone, if I would have staid in the ring until the end. How do you guys deal with those kind of situations ? Do you have some kind of "personal codex", helping you ?
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Jul 14, 2012 1:34:56 GMT -5
To buy or not to buy? For me it is simple. Do I like, want or need it? Can I Afford it? Can I trust the vendor's description? Only if the answer is yes to all three questions will I attempt to buy it. But Never on eBay unless it is a Buy It Now item. As a result of these self imposed restrictions it has been a long time since I have purchased a camera on eBay. To sum up succinctly, CAVEAT EMPTOR. Some of my detested high school Latin did get absorbed. Mickey
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Jul 14, 2012 3:13:37 GMT -5
I think as with all auctions you have to set a limit - or perhaps two limits: 1) how much you would sensibly like and expect to pay 2) how much you will pay for something you really want. You should then not go above the limit whatever. There is always something else you can spend the money on.
The one I really regret not getting was a Leica IIIG about 35 years ago.
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hansz
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Hans
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Post by hansz on Jul 14, 2012 7:44:07 GMT -5
On Ebay I only buy if it's auctioned. Set my purchasing limit low and don't expect to buy anything. And still sometimes, luckily, you get something you want paying a fair price. I also learned not to regret anything that I missed:-) P.S. As Zeiss affeccionado, I only buy at the German auction site and - preferably - not on prime time (i.e. Sunday evening). P.P.S. Searching for something I fancy at pawn shops, charity etc. is far more rewarding than any purchase one can do on auction sites.
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Post by grenouille on Jul 14, 2012 11:48:33 GMT -5
I bought only once from e-bay and that was the last time, the equipment was not as described. In any case I was not going to kick up a fuss for 50€ so e-bay ended there.
On my purchase, I set myself a limit depending of my budget and I prefer to buy direct from a honest trader, over the years, after trial and error, I stuck to a couple of good honest sellers and have never regretted.
There were a few cameras over the years that I missed, but then no regrets because I did not have the budget. Where I am is an old camera desert that is why I have to look elsewhere for honest sellers.
Hye
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2012 20:13:51 GMT -5
Many of my Soviet cameras were acquired on Ebay but after I became acquainted with some of the sellers we often just struck our own deals. They didn't have to pay Ebay and could pass on some of the savings to me. I seldom paid more than $60 for a Soviet camera, most were less. I did pay $120 for a 1948 Zorki. I should have kept it but after a few months I sold it to someone in the U.K. for nearly double what I paid for it--to finance the purchase of a DSLR. Wish I had kept it. There were only a few hundred of that particular camera made. I also had a Leningrad motorized camera that I actually sent back to Russia for new curtains--then sold it after I got it back. Probably the best buys I got on FSU gear were from Americans whose families had somehow acquired Soviet gear back in the day and were just happy to get a little something out of it. My advantage was the postings for those cameras usually didn't have any detail because the people selling them didn't know anything about them. I could usually tell from the photo if it was something worth getting and there weren't that many folks around back then that knew much about FSU stuff.
W.
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Doug T.
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Post by Doug T. on Jul 14, 2012 20:47:10 GMT -5
After years of buying, selling, collecting, and trading, I pretty much know what things are worth to me. I bid accordingly. I seldom have problems with e-bay (the fees are too much though ) I don't usually bid much, and it never ceases to amaze me how deep some peoples pockets are. I think it's more fun getting that rare piece for a low price, or trading. I've given away a lot of photo stuff over the years as well. Doug
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Jul 14, 2012 21:29:39 GMT -5
A lot of interesting statements here. What I appreciate about Yahooauctions comparing to E-Bay is, that there are no bids in the last seconds or even milliseconds. If somebody bids a higher price within the last three minutes of the auction, it will automatically become extended for another three minutes. That gives everybody at least a three minutes time window to think about the next step. Also ... but that's probably a Japan related issue ( education, culture, etc. ) ... the article descriptions here on auctions are very detailed and honest. Even the tiniest scratch is documented with photos and I experienced, that every article I bought, has been at least in the described condition, but mostly in an even better one. But still ... the "how much shall I pay or is it worth"-question for ultra rare items remains. But here, I like your comment, Dave: That's true
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Post by Peltigera on Jul 15, 2012 5:03:47 GMT -5
the trick with any auction is to know your price before you start bidding and stick to it even if the final price is just above your limit. And don't forget buyer commissions (at real auctions) or postage on Interweb auctions as they are a part of the price you pay.
Also, on interweb auctions, I will bid higher if there is a detailed description - a 60 year old camera will have defects and I want them described. If the description is detailed I will assume all the defects are listed. If the description is vague, I will assume there are clear defects the seller doesn't want to admit to.
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Jul 15, 2012 10:46:13 GMT -5
Also, on interweb auctions, I will bid higher if there is a detailed description - a 60 year old camera will have defects and I want them described. If the description is detailed I will assume all the defects are listed. If the description is vague, I will assume there are clear defects the seller doesn't want to admit to. Going along with this is the importance of carefully examining the photo(s) of the item. There was (is?) a European company, that did a large eBay business, which stated "What you see is what you get". The trouble was that you also got, or didn't get, what you didn't see. It took me two purchases from them to awaken to that ruse. Always ask to see additional photos if you feel the one(s) shown are incomplete and/or the written description is not comprehensive. Chances are you will never get to see those requested pictures. Mickey
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Jul 16, 2012 19:55:35 GMT -5
If possible, I always check the sellers profile. If he has never sold a camera before, I tend to believe, that he does not know, if the camera is working or not ... as often stated ... but if he already has a lot of sold cameras on his list, I wouldn't believe the "I found it at my grandfathers attic and can't give any further information"-story However, I also benefited from the fact, that a seller is not an expert sometimes. Got a few cameras, declared as junk and not working, just because the seller had no idea how to operate them. If I would give an old folder or TLR to anybody on the street, most people would not even know, that the shutter needs to be cocked before fired. So what kind of detailed information can I expect from a person, who is not a camera collector himself ? Talking about very rare items, the camera condition is a secondary problem anyway, I think. As my space starts to become limited, I focus more on hunting rare cameras recently ... but here, it's often quite difficult to set myself a certain limit. But ... it's not only about owning rare cameras. I am also happy, just to find and see something interesting, even I don't own it. Recently, I have been on a historical TV drama shoot and one of my friends, supposed to be a photographer in one scene and they gave him an old 6x6 folder from that time. The TV staff treated the cameras just like junk ( from their point of view, they are just vintage accessories ), but having a closer look at this camera, it has been a Muse Six. According to the Camerapedia, no surviving example has been observed so far. I did I haven't had the chance for talking to the production staff, because I had to hurry to another shooting location. Otherwise, I might have tried a deal But here again, how much would such a camera be worth ? $ 10 because it's junk ... or $ 1000 because it's rare ? Or something in between ? I often simply don't know
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Jul 16, 2012 20:28:24 GMT -5
Berndt,
A camera may be rare but if there is no demand for it what can it be worth?
To Mr./Ms. Anyone, probably nothing.
To a collector, priceless.
Or probably it is the last noted price at sale or auction of it or a similar camera.
Mickey
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Jul 17, 2012 4:37:07 GMT -5
To the production people it has value as a prop. If they can buy another camera cheap that will do the same job then that's all it's worth - to them.
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Jul 17, 2012 5:22:25 GMT -5
Mickey, this has at least something good: If everything would be equally valuable for everyone, nobody would sell something cheap As a collector ( and not traider ), I am not much interested in a potential value for re-selling anyway, but we also need to make some assumptions, just for ourselves, before going into an auction. I don't know, but I would personally say, that those price guides and data start to become interesting/reliable if an item appears on an auction/sales for more than 2-3 times a year ... but if a camera is rare enough to be traided just a few times in a decade or even less, the last noted price might not mean much. However, I always found it easier for lenses than for cameras. I collected Canon FL lenses for a while and some of them do also not appear on auctions or in shops very often. It took me quite a while to get the 19 mm, the 85 mm ( F:1.8 ) and the zoom lenses at a decent price ( and in perfect condition, as I also wanted to use them ). The prices vary greatly, but still ... my personal limit has always been app. $ 100 ( don't ask me why ) and I got them all cheaper then that. Maybe, I should set such a virtual (?) limit in my mind for cameras too ?
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