Camera collecting in the People's Republic.

[nikkortorokkor]

As you'll have noticed, other than posting the odd digital photo, I've been fairly quiet on this forum of late.

The problem is, for all intents I've given up actively collecting for the duration of my stay in China. My inability to read Chinese and my pretty lousy spoken Chinese make it not-that-much-fun to pursue my hobby. The dearth of film processors in my locality has added to the problem and the final blow was dropping my favourite rangefinder (an AGFA Ambi-Silette) - I didn't destroy it totally, but the damage was traumatic to my collector's soul.

I did have a wonderful half hour on the top floor of the Camera Plaza in Shanghai worth a visit for any camera buff. Slide past the flashy booths on the ground floor and you soon enter an enthusiast's heaven. Lots of local and imported collectibles in the 2nd hand shops on (I think) the 5th floor.

On the floor below, new accessories are often very well priced. I bought a "Natural" brand (well thought of locally) 52 mm circular polarizing filter for well under 100RMB (US$15) off a very nice woman who will receive further business from me. Similarly, an MD to Micro 4/3 adapter was cheap enough at 150RMB. A couple of Nikon-toting locals assured me that the shop was honest, and the adapter works just fine. These places all display prices, which is reassuring. It doesn't mean you can't haggle, but you at least know where you are starting at. I didn't bother bargaining for either of the above purchases.

But the real hub of camera purchasing in modern China is Taobao, the local internet marketplace. For collectors, I have to say, the prices aren't cheap. Want a Shanghai 58II (Leica IIC copy) in OK condition? Be prepared to shell out real money in the People's Republic.

here are a couple of shops which may help you get an idea of prices. I HAVE been tempted but, probably fortunately, I have to include my wife in the deal as she is the only one in this house who reads Chinese properly. Thus I have a useful handbrake on further GAS. Anyway, here are the shops, the 1st is a bit more expensive than the 2nd. I hope you find them interesting.

kkxj.taobao.com/search.htm?search=y&viewType=grid&orderType=_hotsell&pageNum=1#anchor

shop36062873.taobao.com/search.htm?spm=2013.1.6-1_eBgJ.1

Oh, and here is a very top-dollar Shanghai 58II
item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.10.117&id=12443810596

Perhaps the prices result from a mixture of nostalgia and national pride, added to which is the growing middle-class ready and able to splash the cash.

Cheers,

Michael in China.

[grenouille]

Interesting sites, thanks for sharing.

Camera Collection is also very popular in the South East Asian Countries, in most of the cities there you do find 2nd hand camera shops.

Most of the prices reflect a good knowledge of the sellers of the 2nd hand market, Regards

Hye

[Berndt]

Interesting report, Michael.

I imagine China similar to Russia shortly after the fall of the soviet union ( but I can be completely wrong, of course ). Most people are still poor, but a rich elite already established. I went to Moscow for a holiday at that time and found, that all prices have been quite unbalanced. You could eat or buy something in one shop for more than $ 100 and get the same thing in a neighbour shop for just a few cents.

So, it is probably still possible to make interesting bargains regarding domestic cameras in China ... or not ? The internet ... well, that's still for "rich people", I guess ... but what about local shops and flea markets ? Some domestic chinese cameras are pretty good ( especially TLRs ) and film is still cheap there, isn't it ?

So, I wouldn't cry too much about your Agfa and try to use the chance for adding some exotic chinese pieces to your collection.

And Michael ... if you intend to stay there for longer, try to learn the language. I know it's tough and I am still fighting with my Japanese here after years, but it's worth it. Otherwise, you will feel lonely and isolated very soon.

Cheers from Tokyo,

Berndt

[daveh]

Michael, interesting: thanks for posting.

I'm sure Berndt is right about learning the language.

I could look this up (and indeed I have asked someone, Martin, who has siblings in Shanghai, but have forgotten the answer): do they speak Mandarin or Cantonese in Shanghai? Martin is, by the way Chinese.

I have somewhere a disk "teach yourself Chinese". The only thing I picked up from it is that there are seven basic strokes in their writing.

[Deleted]

Wish I had known about the Camera Plaza when we were in Shanghai in 2008.

W.

[julio1fer]

You could check the Shanghai Camera Manufacturing Museum which opened recently.

[nikkortorokkor]

Thanks for the kind comments.

Sometime in the future I will try to pick up a few more Chinese classics - making it to Shanghai & Beijing flea markets is probably the best way for me or, indeed from the Camera Plaza next time I'm in Shanghai.

The big 3 for me will be a Shanghai 58, A Seagull 203-I medium format (120) folder and the Seagull DF SLR (or one of its numerous descendants) - a licensed copy of a Minolta SR-3. The last two should be easy to pick up - it's the Leica copies which seem to capture the bigger money here.

Yes, I know I must improve my poor Chinese. Not being able to converse fluently means living a half life. Next semester I'll have formal lessons given by some of the teaching-Chinese-as-a-second-language students here. They leap at the chance to teach a real laowai (foreigner).

In Shanghai, true locals speak Shanghanese - a language in its own right (though always called a dialect for obvious political reasons). All educated people speak Putonghua - Standard Chinese, which we in the West still call Mandarin. Here in Zhuhai, the local language is Cantonese, but since almost everyone here is from somewhere else, most people are trilingual, speaking Putonghua and Guandonghua (Cantonese) and their local dielect from their hometown. All school children in China are taught in Putonghua, so the language is near universally understood.

Wayne, I wish you'd seen the Plaza too. It is in downtown Shanghai (or on its edge) and is a short walk from a Metro station. The official name is: Xing Guang Photography Equipment Center.

For those who are contemplating a trip to the PRC, here's the best info I've found on camera shops, new and 2nd hand:
www.cityweekend.com.cn/shanghai/articles/blogs-shanghai/cw-radar/how-to-take-amazing-photos-in-shanghai/
The 2nd hand centre near the railway station sounds interesting. Missed it on my last visit.

Julio - thanks for the heads-up about the museum.

Cheers,

Michael.

[daveh]

Michael thanks for the run-down on the Chinese tongue. I saw someone yesterday who is holidaying in China in a couple of weeks time. The one "popular" place not on his itinerary is Shanghai. I did ask him "have you got a decent camera" - he has a DSLR, so he should come back with plenty of photographic memories. Some friends went a few years ago. They barely take a photo when away, so we didn't get to see anything of their holiday.

The Chinese in Britain have tended to be Cantonese speakers. Liverpool was the first European town with a big Chinese community. For whatever reason the Chinese seem to integrate more easily than other races when they come to Britain. Initially they all seemed to run laundries: then it was fish-and-chip shops and restaurants. Many seem to have retained their love for gambling. I know of at least one locally who gambled his business....and lost. Overnight he and his family were out and the new owners moved in. In reverse Shanghai waterfront was modelled on Liverpool.

[grenouille]

Most of the Chinese in Britain originated from Hong Kong where Cantonese is the language and not Madarin. Integration is not an issue as religion and food does not come into question, sometimes in a typical Chinese family, you'll find Buddist, Catholics, Christians, etc, all mixed up.

The Chinese love their Pork, so if any religion that forbids pork, they will not be in it. You're right, gambling is in their blood, Cheers

Hye

[herron]

Jul 20, 2012 17:59:30 GMT -5 @wayne said:

Wish I had known about the Camera Plaza when we were in Shanghai in 2008.

W.

I'm sure it wasn't there when I visited in 1986. What a remarkable change that city has gone through. Lively and bustling when the French were there, dismal and run-down during Mao, and now alive and glittery again.

Fabulous, intriguing and interesting place.

[nikkortorokkor]

Ron, though I'm too much of a small-town boy to want to live in Shanghai, I love it every time I visit. This time we stayed in a darned nice hotel in Old Town (courtesy of my sister who was visiting from Kuwait) and the concession-era architecture around us really shone. Very different to the blocky, tiled, universal Asian buildings which are spreading like an algal bloom over so many Chinese cities.

The original Chinese population in California, Australia and NZ were also Cantonese, as are most of South East Asia's traditional Chinese communities. New Chinese migrants are likely to be middle-class and from anywhere, including the PRC and the ROC. There was a large exodus from Hong Kong 15 years ago, but now many migrants from HK are heading the other way, across the border and into Mainland China. Funny how things work out.

I'm enjoying photographing China, but must admit that in big cities glossy cities such as HK & Shanghai, I get overwhelmed by the speed and crush. I do very little true street photography and end up seduced by mirror glass. Anyway, for those who are interested, I post a few of my personal favourites here:
paxette.tumblr.com/

Michael.

[mickeyobe]

Michael,

Thank you for those splendid pictures of an amazing country I know I shall never have the privilege of visiting.

Mickey

[herron]

Jul 21, 2012 19:13:58 GMT -5 nikkortorokkor said:

Ron, though I'm too much of a small-town boy to want to live in Shanghai, I love it every time I visit. This time we stayed in a darned nice hotel in Old Town (courtesy of my sister who was visiting from Kuwait) and the concession-era architecture around us really shone. Very different to the blocky, tiled, universal Asian buildings which are spreading like an algal bloom over so many Chinese cities.

The original Chinese population in California, Australia and NZ were also Cantonese, as are most of South East Asia's traditional Chinese communities. New Chinese migrants are likely to be middle-class and from anywhere, including the PRC and the ROC. There was a large exodus from Hong Kong 15 years ago, but now many migrants from HK are heading the other way, across the border and into Mainland China. Funny how things work out.

I'm enjoying photographing China, but must admit that in big cities glossy cities such as HK & Shanghai, I get overwhelmed by the speed and crush. I do very little true street photography and end up seduced by mirror glass. Anyway, for those who are interested, I post a few of my personal favourites here:
paxette.tumblr.com/

Michael.

Michael -
Are those pictures all of the area around Shanghai? It is so much different from what I saw in 1986 that it's incredible.

[grenouille]

Most of the Chinese in South East Asia, depending on where you are , are made up of Hokkien, Cantonese, Hakka, Teo Chew, Hainian and from Formosa, these were the original waves when the last Empire was at its deathbed.
The new wave from PRC and ROC are using SEA as a stepping stone for the West. Regards

Hye

[nikkortorokkor]

Thanks for the extra info Hye.

I know first hand about the Hakka population in Singapore through friends here in Zhuhai. My wife is of Hakka decent, and fostering and kinship ties through regular group activities (usually eating and drinking) remains a strong Hakka trait, even today. I understand that the Hakka in Singapore maintain ties in a similar way. Important for a people who've long been prepared to move and survive. My wife's family moved inland from Guangdong and established themselves in Neighbouring Jiangxi province. Now, as the east has grown prosperous, they've come back to the coast, still maintaining their Hakka cultural identity. Most are doing very well.