|
Post by philbirch on Nov 1, 2014 18:43:21 GMT -5
I am winding up collecting cameras for the foreseeable future. I am disposing of any that don't fit in with my 1953-1958 (was 1954-1957) theme or my classic Canon and Minoltas (which I'll still be looking for) so I will have a few cameras for sale. And some lenses too.
I want to wind up my collection with a biggie from my birth year (1957) I have my eye on the Leica lllg with the collapsible Elmar. The lllf is just within my time frame, but an early lllg would be nice.
I'm going to pop over to Real Camera in Manchester to see what they have. I want a good condition and fully operational camera because I'm going to use it a lot.
The M3 is also my birth year camera but I prefer the classic looks of the screw fit Leicas.
I am not interested in another camera that is just as good - Unless its special.
The dream cameras are:
Leica lllg would definitely use it
Alpa Reflex 6 would definitely use it
Reid lll would use it.
Rolleiflex 2.8E unlikely to use it much
Hasselblad 500C (early model) unlikely to use it much.
Leica M3 would use it but last on the list for a reason.
I'd hope that £500 ought to cover anything in this range. But I can go quite a bit higher if necessary.
Your comments please or offers.
Hurrah, my 1000'th post!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 19:43:31 GMT -5
The Holy Grail for me would be the IIIG but one would cost more than the rest of my collection combined.
|
|
Dave
Lifetime Member
Posts: 124
|
Post by Dave on Nov 1, 2014 20:53:16 GMT -5
In looking a eBay, it seems to me that that prices on IIIg's has somewhat moderated.
|
|
|
Post by genazzano on Nov 1, 2014 22:36:29 GMT -5
The IIIg is also on my shortlist as is a Hansa Canon. The IIIg prices have moderated recently and it looks like a buyers market for Leicas. I would like to sell some of my collection as well but ebay isn't very attractive as a place to sell. For me I think it makes more sense to negotiate a trade with another collector.
David
|
|
Stephen
Lifetime Member
Still collecting.......
Posts: 2,718
|
Post by Stephen on Nov 2, 2014 8:36:16 GMT -5
A lllg ? The last of the awkward but supurb Leica screw mount cameras, I have my Fathers, carefully preserved, but occasionally used, and with the TTH F2 from the Reid, which is a fantastic lens.
The Reid is better made than the Leica, on authority from Leica service experts, and from the gentleman who gathered the Leica design details together during the war for Reid to convert to imperial threads and improve these shutters.
The lllg had some of the Reid improvements incorporated in the design, small changes but important, giving a smoother release and quieter shutter.
The other top make for the period, optically, is Alpa with the Kern Macro 50, which is absolute unbeatable to this day on both sharpness and colour balance, a true classic lens on another awkward camera!
With an EBay purchase or a shop buy, then budget for a full service with the IIIg, including having the lens cleaned, recoated if needed, and properly recollomated on reassembly. That's if it needs it, only test films and carefully assessing the condition bypass this.
Stephen.
|
|
mickeyobe
Lifetime Member
Resident President
Posts: 7,280
|
Post by mickeyobe on Nov 2, 2014 12:05:27 GMT -5
"Hurrah, my 1000'th post!"
Congratulations, Phil, on your thousandth. I am looking forward to your next thousand.
To celebrate you should splurge and go for the Leica lllg. You have earned it. I will vouch for for the dire necessity of your possessing one.
Cheers, Mickey
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2014 12:22:51 GMT -5
Mickey has been posting here so long that the first image he uploaded was a Daguerreotype.
|
|
mickeyobe
Lifetime Member
Resident President
Posts: 7,280
|
Post by mickeyobe on Nov 2, 2014 16:11:30 GMT -5
Mickey has been posting here so long that the first image he uploaded was a Daguerreotype. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. It was a charcoal drawing on a cave wall in Lascaux of a sabre tooth tiger pursuing a mammoth. Mickey
|
|
|
Post by philbirch on Nov 2, 2014 21:11:10 GMT -5
A lllg ? The last of the awkward but supurb Leica screw mount cameras, I have my Fathers, carefully preserved, but occasionally used, and with the TTH F2 from the Reid, which is a fantastic lens. The Reid is better made than the Leica, on authority from Leica service experts, and from the gentleman who gathered the Leica design details together during the war for Reid to convert to imperial threads and improve these shutters. The lllg had some of the Reid improvements incorporated in the design, small changes but important, giving a smoother release and quieter shutter. The other top make for the period, optically, is Alpa with the Kern Macro 50, which is absolute unbeatable to this day on both sharpness and colour balance, a true classic lens on another awkward camera! With an EBay purchase or a shop buy, then budget for a full service with the IIIg, including having the lens cleaned, recoated if needed, and properly recollomated on reassembly. That's if it needs it, only test films and carefully assessing the condition bypass this. Stephen. I like the lllg and while this is my target, I may be persuaded to go for another model. Since writing the original post I have seen how much a Reid goes for. Perhaps a little out of my budget. I read that the difference between an lllg and a lllf is mainly from a manufacturing point of view but it is interesting that Leica appeared to copy a copy of one of their cameras. I shall visit a couple of specialist dealers in mid December and get myself a nice Christmas present. Thanks for your advice Stephen.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 20:01:45 GMT -5
I've had three M3s -- all double stroke film advances. Loved their smoothness but eventually got tired of their weight and bulkiness. Always seemed larger than a RF camera should be. My favorite all-time Leica types was a MIOJ Leotax that I acquired for almost nothing, shot a lot of pictures with it, Loved the way it handled and then traded it for almost nothing on an M3 (I think). Now the Leotax is worth more than an M3 and rightly so if my experience is an indicator.
|
|
|
Post by philbirch on Nov 4, 2014 7:37:11 GMT -5
Yes Wayne I have looked at the Leotax and the Reid but are way out of the price range.
A leica lllg is good enough. I know the M3 is also from that period but the classic look of an older version is my dream As is an Alpa.
|
|
Stephen
Lifetime Member
Still collecting.......
Posts: 2,718
|
Post by Stephen on Nov 4, 2014 13:25:21 GMT -5
There was a bit of cooperation between Leica and other makers, both agreed and a bit under the counter, during the war, and after. Leica seems to have remained out of the politics of the 1930's in Germany, and got caught up in problems due to the US remaining neutral at first.
The UK authorities wanted Leica equipment in 1939, and requisitioned all supplies in the UK, and immediately ordered UK makers to provide an equivalent.
But in practice for two years they could buy the cameras in the States. As soon as the US entered the war they also took the same idea, and took over Leica in the States, expecting them to be able to make cameras from spares.
This did not work, and the Karman was the result, a supurb copy, but too late for the war.
Needless to say Leitz were none too pleased to have the US assets seized, and very upset when the Karman was ordered into production.
In the UK the supply was found from neutral Sweden in the latter part of the war, but the project to design a UK version went ahead anyway. Reid were chosen as makers, and did the final design, only to find the war was over, and the camera unsuitable to sell to the public. They redesigned it again and finally put it into production in the late 1940's, too late and too costly.
It should not be forgotten that the design of the Leica and the Contax was officially sanctioned to be supplied to the Japanese during the war. Canon and Nikon were involved but both redesigned the cameras, mainly with ease of production in mind.
The other post war copiests in Japan were encouraged by the collapse of the German patents, which meant the US market opened up for them straightaway.
Leotax are probably the best copy made, note copy, not an equivalent like the Reid or the Jarman.
Japanese engineering meant a simplification of the design was possible without sacrificing the overall quality. They use the principle of reasonably tight tolerances and assembling units from the full range of tolerances of the manufactured parts, all parts are interchangeable.
Leica were different, they used tight tolerances, but picked and chose parts within the band to fit perfectly. This results in a higher quality item, but parts from one camera may not fit another.
But the Japanese did not have the lens quality at first, the Reid TTH is in a different league, and original Leica was far better than Japanese.
It was the mid 1950's before the Japanese caught up, so the Leotax never quite rivalled the very best.
If it is overall picture quality you need, then go for the Leica on the basis of the lenses. If a collectors camera with a good standard lens, then the Reid, which can of course take all the Leica lenses.
Stephen.
|
|
|
Post by paulhofseth on Nov 4, 2014 15:27:35 GMT -5
WW2 photo equipment history:
The Swiss reputedly decided that they needed the Alpa in case Leitz supplies dried up.
Your quest:
If you are collecting Leicas, the IIIG is the last of that mount and is a must-have. Its ,contemporary Visoflex attachment can, occasionally, also be found cheap from sellers with no idea of what it is. The prism on it is the brightest SLR I have ever used as is the "chimney".
If, however, you will be using it, my experience from the distant past when I retired the f for a g counts against.
Yes, coupled with the collapsible Summicron 50 and Panatomic-X (and later, FP-3 + Microphen), they gave entirely satisfactory pictures. However, the viewfinder is not too bright and not very large and the focussing is fiddly. More important though, no adapter will enable you to use M-mount optics - which will give you access to faster apertures, higher contrast & sharper pictures.
I gave up the g in favour of the M3, and later, to avoid carrying a Metrawatt or using the bolt-on light meter, changed the M3 for an M6 (- which nowadays sits on a shelf and is only occasionally used with XP-2).
p.
|
|
|
Post by philbirch on Nov 4, 2014 18:46:29 GMT -5
I dont want to start a collection, I want a good camera that I can use. I have been using my Zorki 2C for well over a year now and its a lovely camera to use. Its a Leica copy, and I was thinking a real one would be nice.
I use all my (working) classic cameras and most have fiddly viewfinders so this will be nothing new!. I'm not bothered about M-mount lenses either. M39 is good enough for me and the lllg will allow me to use what I have in my small M39 collection as well as all my Minolta Rokkors and M42 lenses. Via my very special adapter.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2014 19:05:16 GMT -5
I have noticed that Leotax Lenses seem to fetch outlandish prices on Ebay -- often more than the camera bodies. The lens on my Leotax was a copy of the collapsible Elmar and IMO was every bit as sharp as the original and had outstanding contrast. Much better than any of my FSU Elmar copies -- although it's pretty hard to foul up the formula used on the Elmar. The tolerances on the FSU Leica II copies aren't nearly as tight as the Leica. I have had occasion to assist in curtain replacement on a screw mount Leica and on a Nicca and the tolerances were tight on both bodies. As far as Japanese lenses not getting good until later in the '50s, they were good enough that clear back during the Korean War foreign news photographers were "discovering" them. That's when their reputation for optical quality was established.
|
|