Mamiya DSX 1000

[PeterW]

Hi everyone,

Just this morning picked up a nice Mamiya DSX 1000 (1974-ish?) with SX 1.8 lens unmarked and clear, and cosmetically in almost unmarked condition, just a little bit grubby round the rewind crank. Even the light seals look good. Everything mechanical works beatufully. but the meter doesn't. There was a completely dead silver oxide battery in it so I fitted a new one, but the meter's still dead. I gave the centre contact and the spring ring a quick clean but maybe they need a more thorough clean - either that or I don't know how to switch the meter on! I tried pushing the wind lever forwards, but no joy .

Are there any points I should know about the camera in general, Ron? Like what are the little symbols S and what looks like a beehive in the bottom of the viewfinder? The pointer there doesn't move either.

Peter

[John Parry]

Hi Peter

No doubt Ron will tell you all about the operation. This site gives you a run-down on the metering, but it also gives the meter circuitry if it turns out to be dead...

eddy.uni-duisburg.de/joerg/allerlei/mamiya/sx.html

Regards - John

[PeterW]

Thanks, John, that site was very helpful. It's one that Google didn't find for me.

I now know how to switch the meter on and off, and I now see how the little fixed pin on the back of the SX lens transmits information from the lens aperture setting ring to the camera for open aperture metering - via a spring loaded lever on the right hand side of the lens mount if you look at it from the front - clever!

I also found the little spring-loaded pin that locks the lens in position, at 9 o'clock looking at the front of the lens mount. This engages with a slot in the plastic at the back of the lens, and is retracted by the lens unlocking button, bottom left on the lens housing.

I also found the S&A switch for spot and average metering - can't think how I missed that (what I said looked like a beehive in the viewfinder is actually an A ), and I found the little orange rectangle on the mirror which is for the spot reading - ingenious!!

While I was fiddling with the various controls the meter suddenly came alive, but then died again after a minute or so. This would seem to point to a bad contact somewhere in the circuit that's making and breaking, depending on its mood when you move switches or jerk the camera.

From the simplified diagramatic layout of the meter circuit on the site I suppose it could be at the S&A switch. I suppose another possibility is the on/off switch at the wind-on lever, but the diagram doesn't even show a wire going to that. I hope it's neither of those as without a repair manual I'm rather loath to go exploring inside a camera that's in as nice condition as this one - neither switch looks very easy to get at.

However, the site also mentions that a not unknown source of trouble is a corroded wire at the battery holder which needs cleaning and resoldering, particularly if a dead battery has been left in the camera, and suggests taking the bottom plate off to get at it more easily. That doesn't sound very difficult, so here's hoping. I'll let you know what I find.

If that isn't the problem I think I'll leave it till I can get a look at a repair manual. It would be nice to have the meter working, but I can still use the camera with a hand-held meter.

Thanks again for pointing me at that useful site, John. Much appreciated.

BTW. Ron, I found when I looked inside the Korvette more closely that someone had blazed a trail before me, marked by mangled screw heads and some obviously missing spacer washers and shims. So I've buttoned it all together again, given it a clean, and it's now sitting on the shelf as an ornament - sorry, I mean a static example of a Mamiya Family name variant .

Regards,

Peter

[herron]

Peter...
havng found Jeorg's site, you already answered many of your questions...guess it sometimes pays to be away for a half day! LOL

Joerg and I have frequent conversations about Mamiya cameras. If you look at his site carefully, you will see one or two of the shots that are on mine (although now I think he has more of my stuff, from my older version of the site).

There's another young man in Germany with a very good site for Mamiya NC1000 cameas. His name is Roland Stauber, and we have frequent conversations and file-sharing emails as well! people.freenet.de/stauber/mamiya-nc/index.htm

There are several links to Mamiya-related sites (and Joerg Krueger's is one of them) on my Related Links page at www.mamiya35collectors.com/related_links.htm

From the way you describe it, it does seem like that loose connecting wire at the battery holder...they frequently break there when batteries are left in too long. For your sake, I hope so. I don't know how you feel about it, but I don't particularly like having to tear a nice user apart just to reconnect a wire I really don't need, and if the loose connection is not at the battery holder, that's just what you'll have to do to find it.

Good luck (and it looks like another Mamiya 35 user has been born)! ;D

[PeterW]

Hi Ron,

Well, I took the bottom plate off and checked, but the wire connection to the battery holder looked OK. Just as another check I put a meter across the soldered joint and got zero resistance, so that isn't the problem.

As the rest of the camera's in such really nice condition I've decided that discretion's the better part of valour. I'll leave it alone and use a hand meter.

Peter

[herron]

Peter:
I'm going to have a look at the DSX service manual, to see if there is another "easy" spot to check....I'll let you know!

BTW. Ron, I found when I looked inside the Korvette more closely that someone had blazed a trail before me, marked by mangled screw heads and some obviously missing spacer washers and shims. So I've buttoned it all together again, given it a clean, and it's now sitting on the shelf as an ornament - sorry, I mean a static example of a Mamiya Family name variant

Sorry to hear that someone had been "blazing" in there before you...but you were right the first time...it qualifies as an ornament I have several of them myself! ;D

[litesong]

Hi Peter....Sorry to break into your gleeful discovery of the Mamiya's "clever" method of transferring open aperture metering info from SX Mamiya lenses to DSX & MSX camera bodies. But Mamiya stole the method directly from the earlier(& better) Fujica open aperture ST801 camera body. So directly was the stolen method that Mamiya SX lenses, when screwed on Fujica ST 801 camera, can give fairly accurate lite readings in the Fujica ST801 thru part of the metering range. Actually, the Pentax Spotmatic F also took the Fujica method of lite metering information transfer. Fujica should have taken these technology late comers to court but never did. Fujica should have also taken all techno short companies to court after Fujica led the photo industry by the nose into the modern era with silicon lite cells & Lite Emitting Diodes. Johnny Come Lately companies were not only late, they made inferior usage of silicon cells & LEDs in comparison to Fujica. Also Fujica ST801 used 1/2000th of a second shutters while using smaller & lighter cameras. Fujica Electron Beam multicoating lens process was better than most other coating processes. Fujica invested in the future. Yes, Fujica beat Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax, & all other companies who used their profits to fatten their corporate heads. If Fujica had gone to court to protect their multi layered technological lead & had mounted multi million dollar ad campaigns, Fujica would be THE house hold name in SLRs instead of Minolta, Nikon, Canon, & Pentax. Too bad a company in this society just can't be good at what it loves to do. But to survive, it must also mount lawyer & advertisement brigades to battle companies who want to rise using someone else's sweat.
I don't see the hoopla for the Mamiya DSX cameras at this website because the Fujica ST801 camera is a better camera...built on its own sweat.

[PeterW]

Hi,

Sorry to break into your gleeful discovery of the Mamiya's "clever" method of transferring open aperture metering info from SX Mamiya lenses to DSX & MSX camera bodies. But Mamiya stole the method directly from the earlier(& better) Fujica open aperture ST801 camera body.

Oh, don't be sorry. Thanks for the information. My glee at learning more about the Japanese camera industry is increased. The more you find out about cameras and the people who made them, the more there is to learn. That's what makes it all so fascinating.

My interest overt the past 30-odd years has been mainly in the history of the European, particularly German, camera industry, and I've barely scatched the surface of that! But I'm finding the convoluted history of Japanese camera makers more and more interesting.

The raw deal that seems to have been Fujica's lot is, sadly, an echo of the sort of thing that went on with European cameras pretty well right through the 1900s. A small company, or in some cases an individual, would patent an idea and then the big boys would look at it, modify it, and patent 'an improved method of ... etc.' to reap the profits, sometimes offering a pittance of a royalty in 'recognition without prejudice' for an idea that earned them thousands. The small guy couldn't afford a High Court case to fight them so he usually accepted their offer. Money is powerful - 'twas ever thus unfortunately .

Peter

[herron]

litesong:
Finding historical records about camera design and production has always been a difficult thing to do, unless you happen to be one of "the anointed" companies, in terms of perceived collectability.

As a Mamiya collector, I know what it is like to not be in those stratospheric heights, so production information is not as readily available as it would be if I collected....let's say...Nikon, or Leica.

One of the things I have always tried to do in building my web site is discover the facts of Mamiya design and production, so they can be truly linked to hard data and separated from any myth that has become accepted - or just brought in from the fog of the unknown. It isn't easy, because it doesn't exist in a nice, neat pile somewhere.

But I would love to see (or be pointed to somewhere I could research) the documentation you have related to Fujica (or any other Japanese SLR company that has ties to Mamiya, for that matter).

The whole structure of Japanese business was a very convoluted (to Western minds) affair and I find some of the behind-the-scenes collaborative efforts between companies, blatant government support and direction, etc., to be almost as fascinating as the companies themselves (there is a very interesting book called "Kaisha: The Japanese Corporation," by Abegglaen and Stalk, written in the mid-eighties, that talks about it).

I don't collect Mamiya just to extoll their virtue (although there was some, as can be said for a lot of Japaenese and European camera companies). The collecting is a personal thing, but as far as my web site goes, facts-is-facts...and that is what it is all about.

So, if there is somewhere to find data that I can document, I will publish it on my web site, so everyone can benefit from the information!

[PeterW]

Hi litesong,

I don’t in any way want to steal thunder from Fujica. You obviously like their cameras and know a lot about them. The only one I have, an ST 605, seems well made and pleasant to handle.

However your reference to Johnny Come Lately companies rather surprised me, so I did just a little bit of quick digging. As far as I can gather, in date order:

Nikon was founded as Nippon Kogaku in 1917.
Pentax was founded as Asahi Kogaku in 1919.
Minolta was founded as Nichi-Doku Shashinki Shokai in 1928.
Canon was founded as Seiki-Kogaku in 1933.
Fujica was founded as Fuji Photo Film Company in 1934.
Mamiya was founded in 1940.

All well-established. Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax and Mamiya don’t seem to be very Johnny Come Lately. Unless, of course, you meant just in their use of silicon diodes and LEDs, but that, I feel, would need a lot more research to study patents and introduction dates, something I haven't got the resources to do.

Now, of course, I'm waiting for someone to tell me that the whole lot were made by Cosina! .

Peter

[herron]

peterw said:

Nikon was founded as Nippon Kogaku in 1917.
Pentax was founded as Asahi Kogaku in 1919.
Minolta was founded as Nichi-Doku Shashinki Shokai in 1928.
Canon was founded as Seiki-Kogaku in 1933.
Fujica was founded as Fuji Photo Film Company in 1934.
Mamiya was founded in 1940.

To be precise, Peter Mamiya was founded in May 1940 as Mamiya Koki Seisakusho...a maker of medium-format folding cameras.

[litesong]

Hi Herron...The "history" of camera technological advances may not be as buried as you think...if someone has past issues of Pop & Modern Photography from the 70's(say 4 to 6 issues per year...or try the library). It'll be easy to show the technological leap Fujica had just by looking at different companys' advertising. The Fujica ST801 was advertised well before other brand cameras with even two of the innovations of which I spoke previously. You have to have written proof, Herron, but my proof is what features with what brands I could buy at the time my photographic life was beginning in the early 70's. I purchased the Fujica ST801 in 1974 & it had been advertised for at least a year previously. No other brand advertised LEDs, silicon cells or 1/2000th of a second shutter speeds while I contentedly took 3000 pictures with my Fujica ST801 in the first year of ownership. Someone other than Fujica may have been multi coating their lenses, but I heard some of the processes were prematurely flaking or spotting. Six months to a year after I bought my ST801, the Olympus OM-1 came out with its dimensions rivaling Fujica's size & weight as well as a viewfinder as bright as the ST801. But Olympus had no LEDs, silicon cells or fast shutter. I would say that Fujica's technological lead was 1.5 to 2 years on their competitors. Nikon & Canon should have had the techno edge with the money the two companys had been making. But I suspect the heads & investors of the companys were profit taking at the time. Grace & peace to you, Herron & all readers...litesong

[herron]

litesong:
I have (or had...once I've gleaned the information I was looking for I started selling them on eBay just to get rid of the pile...and save my marriage ) a stack of just about every major camera magazine since the early 50s (still have stacks 3 feet high x about 15 magazine stacks in the corner of my den...that my wife desperately wishes I would get rid of!)

I don't doubt what you're saying...but time is precious. I had hoped with your knowledge you could point me at a definintive place to start. I've been researching many other aspects for years to come up with what I have.

LOL ;D This is a hobby for me, after all. Burning the midnight oil to chase every comment I've ever heard is -- I'm afraid -- on my list right after I find the "round tuit"

[vintageslrs]

Litesong

I purchased my first Fujica ST801 in 1973. (and I still have it and it is in pristine condition) for much of the same reasons you did.
While most SLR buyers in that time, in the medium price range... were opting for the Minolta SRT101....I resisted.
I made my decision based on the 1) LED metering system 2) the very bright viewfinder 3) the 1/2000 shutter speed 4) the hot shoe (the SRT101 was still being sold in 1973 and still did not have a hot shoe) and 5) the better feel in my hands.
At that time I was managing a Camera Dept in a Dept. Store and had access to most makes and models and spent most days playing with cameras, taking photos and getting paid for it......Hmmm life was pretty good then.... ;D

I never regretted that decision and now I have 4 ST801s and a total of 9 Fujica SLRs.

Bob

[litesong]

Hey I finally found this Mamiya DSX site again.

Hi Mamiya lovers...Litesong-the Fujica enemy here. Hey, I've been bad mouthing Mamiya so much....that I just bot(bought) a Mamiya DSX 1000 with worn case, 55mm f/1.4, 28mm f/2.8, & 200mm f/3.5 lenses. The camera & lenses look minty, but the camera came to me jammed, & is probably the reason someone gave it up. I was crest fallen. But lo & behold, when I opened up the camera back, there was a roll of exposed film still inside at the roll's end. The novice owner must have tried to go to the next frame when the manual winder "stuck". He must have thot(thought) the camera broke. But I removed the film from the sprockets & the film winder wound & snapped back into place...Wow, I just got a minty Mamiya DSX with wonderful lenses for $40. Unlike Peter, I knew the Mamiya DSX fairly well...Hey, Fujica had the method first...right! Well...well......well......WWEELLLL...I like the Mamiya ....Hey, the Mamiya is big...nice & big ...hey, that 200mm f/3.5....Fujica only had a 200mm f/4.5....altho the Fujica 200mm is reputed to be exemplary. I hope the Mamiya will be great too...it looks wonderful...& seems smaller than many other 200mm f/3.5 lenses ....Hey, the 55mm f/1.4 lens?...what a nice big piece of glass. All Fujica cameras & lenses have been small & I have used them for 30+years...but big is beautiful too. & for anyone following the storyline somewhere else in Camera Collectors about the small Pentax & Fujinon f/1.4 lenses being quite radioactive...well, the bigger sized Mamiya, Konica, & Vivitar f/1.4 lenses did not resort to using radioactive Thorium rare earth glass to reduce their sizes, & so are not radioactive. So the Mamiya f/1.4 lens is sweet. The Mamiya has a wonderful thunk when triggered. Yeah, I confess...It thunks better than my Fujica ST801. ;D ;D Yeah, by the Smilies you can tell I'm happy with the Mamiya DSX...even if Fujica did it first. ha ha ha ha