People Violating Copyright

[herron]

I found two auctions tonight on Evilbay that are using images from my web site and passing them off as the item they have for sale! I have notified eBay, of course, and they want me to download the PDF of their "Claimed Infringement" form and fax it to them...before they will do anything!

I'm so teed off that smoke is rising from the top of my head!

One of the sellers withdrew her auction...the other admits he "...nicked the photo from another auction on ebay about a month ago. I have no knowledge of your site or any real interest in it. I'm not selling anything relating to it. I just want to get rid of a camera that my father asked to me to get rid of...."

So his claim is that he didn't steal it directly from me! I pointed out to him that it is still fraud...since the camera he shows in his auction is mine...and not the one he is actually selling -- but that apparently falls on deaf ears!

I'm hoping eBay actually does something tomorrow.

Perhaps if some folks from this forum were to contact the seller "Mamiya/sektor dsx 1000 in excellent condition" (7587835836) and tell him you were interested...but recognize my photo...and what is he doing trying to palm it off as his?...it would shake him a bit.

[mickeyobe]

Ron,

Done. I shall let you know the results.

Mickey

Item: Mamiya/sektor dsx 1000 in excellent condition (7587835836)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
mickeyobe is a potential buyer.

That camera photo may have been stolen from Ron Herron. I
recognize his unique method of photographing his offerings.
Would you please explain before I contact eBay.

Mickey

[herron]

Thanks, Mickey.

[litesong]

Hi Ron...I contacted the person who used your picture too. Hey, I WAS interested in the camera! Told him I couldn't bid on his auction & now he wouldn't get as much for the camera if he'd just paid you for using your picture. At least, I was being a Looky Loo. Grace & peace to you, Ron... litesong

[kiev4a]

Ron:

Several years ago when I was in big-time Soviet camera mode, I was surfing Ebay and found a Zorki listed using almost exactly the same description I had for that model on my web site (the Ukranian seller had his/her own photo). I sent the seller an Emal and noted I was flattered that an FSU seller was using a description from someone in the states.

The seller turned out to be a woman living in Donesk. We corresponded after that regularly and she always gave my site credit when she used my material, plus gave me some good deals when I was looking for a particular camera. She no longer sells but we still touch bases from time-to-time.

[Microdad]

I just went to the auction and it appears he cancelled it. Good job folks I've ran across many auctions on Ebay that have pictures that are not their own. It's especially annoying when the photos are obviously not theirs because you've seen the same photos on the manufacterer's website.

[kamera]

I also went to contribute to the most appropriate cause and could not find the item number.

Direct shinanigans is harmful to all, but especially if the seller were stating the camera to be the one he has up for auction.

He could very easily have said the pic was from another source and was like the one he had, but potential buyers not take cosmetics, etc. seen in the pic as what they were bidding on. And give a source credit for the pic.

On the other hand, persons who are regular auction sellers should have the necessary provisions to correctly depict their wares.

Ron Head
Kalamazoo, MI

[herron]

Many, many thanks to everyone who helped with this.

This seller did not voluntarily withdraw his auction, like the other one did. He was pretty blatant about not doing it. But I just got word from eBay (and now know their VeRO Program re: copyright infringement really works)! I downloaded the PDF form they require, filled it out and faxed it to eBay at noon today (8:00 a.m. PST). They investigated quickly, verified the images were mine and cancelled the seller's auction right away! From his responses to me, I'm certain he is the one steaming now. ;D ;D

They also provided me with a link that will let me do electronic reporting on copyright infringement from now on (you have to provide the written form to them first, or they will do nothing...so it accomplishes little for me to post it).

After all the time and effort I put into it, it frosts me to have someone use my images without asking...particularly when they are trying to pass them off as their auction item! A lot of folks do recognize my images, and I certainly don't want anyone thinking I have anything to do with any auction but my own. No telling what the actual camera really looks like...and pity the poor bloke who buys it!

And, Wayne, when I run across copy use -- particularly word-for-word pickups -- I generally do what you said...send a polite note to the seller, telling them I am flattered they thought my prose was that good and reminding them that it is copyright protected and I would really prefer they ask first, and the least they can do is give my web site some credit (and possible site traffic) in their listing!

[John Parry]

Have to put a point in here because the offender seems to have been a brit - sounds like a brit to me, and I am one.

Seems there are two issues. The first is that someone has posted a photograph of an item that is not the item they are actually selling. Further, they haven't stipulated that the photograph is not of the actual item they are selling. OK Bad news. As an eBay buyer, I don't have anything else to go by other than the description and the photograph. As an 'intelligent' buyer (I like to think so - don't disillusion me!), the photograph is critical. So many items descriptions include phrases such as "I am not a camara expert but I will do my best to answer your questions" But I look at the photograph(s), check out the description, check out the 'View seller's other items" (eg - if the item is a lens and the other items include a camera and two other lenses, there's a good chance the lens will fit that camera !). On the strength of that I put in a maximum bid. So far... I haven't had a problem relating to the photograph (dozens of problems relating to descriptions !). But this is not good.

The other issue is that of copyright on the internet. My own posts on here have attributed photos to their owners (some small debate about L S Lowry but...). I notice that PeterW and Byuphoto among others mark their own photos as copyright at times. I don't. As far as as I am concerned - if I've posted it I've kissed the copyright goodbye. If there was a photograph I thought would be enjoyed by the group, but I thought I might (at some time in the future) want to sell I would put a watermark on it. I've never sold a photograph in my life, but you never know!

So the latter paragraph doesn't help at all really. I can see how the issue of copyright would really concern some of our members, but at the same time I wouldn't like to see our site full of photographs with top to bottom watermarks.

Regards - John

[herron]

John:
At one point in time I actually had some javascript in my source code to prevent the "right-click" theft of my images! I pointed this out to my photographer son, whose livelihood depends on the sale of his images, and who also has online images stolen regularly -- for which he has retained a lawyer to pursue damages (and he wins).

Anyway, when I pointed my javascript out to Jeff, he mentioned that it also causes problems for the Internet search "spiders" that help rank your site on search engines such as Google. Not good.

So I removed the scripting and, right away, the image theft increased many fold! (funny how image theft was little problem until I took the time to introduce good images of my best cameras)

Now, I am not materially damaged by the unpaid use of my images like my son is...but the principle of it, particularly since I have taken the time to arrange and take the images, then document and register my site's copyright properly with the Library of Congress, galls me to no end.

That, and the fact that my Mamiya site is the highest ranked, most noticeable site on the subject on the Internet...and I do NOT want to take the chance of sullying a hard-earned reputation due to image theft by some lazy, sell-my-crap-at-any-cost bast**d (Randy, I had modify the post because your word filter didn't catch that one ), means I take my copyright very seriously, and will never "kiss the copyright goodbye"!

I agree that I would hate to see every image on a forum such as this with a copyright on it...but if any of our pictures are that good, they should probably have it!

I've begun to add a visible copyright notice to every image on my web site (started with my Russian collection last night). Hated to do it, but I have been finding more and more of my images used in fraudulent settings, passed off as the seller's item...and that in itself makes me see red!

Last night I also downloaded the free watermarking software available for Photoshop CS, to put an invisible watermark on my images...so they can be identified as mine later, if need be.

Copyright thieves have every reason to fear this determined, relentless old SOB. Being in the creative business my whole life, it's a real sore point with me, and I do not let it go!

[John Parry]

...but if any of our pictures are that good, they should probably have it!

Ron, there you see the difference between us straight away!!!

Best Regards - John

[paulatukcamera]

For text theft try this:

www.copyscape.com/

I put my pages in and was pleased to find all was OK. I then tried out a client's web site (She writes wonderful descriptions about towns and places in Spain) Discovered that she had her words "lifted" and put into several web sites. After a very sharp letter to the web masters concerned, three withdrew the text. One didn't so I phoned him up and boy was he hostile! Told me to .... off!

In the end we had to let it go as it's simply not worth the legal cost to protect a single page. I don't like it, but I still intend to create hell if I find they are stealing stuff.

Paul

[herron]

For text theft try this:

www.copyscape.com/

Thanks for the link, Paul. I've never seen that service before. I tried it, and it found several of my own pages, plus a few eBay auctions with a smattering of words that are found on my site (but nothing directly copied, since the one eBay auction that was doing that this week voluntarily dropped the text and images it stole). I've bookmarked it for future reference.

At least I know no one is using my text...although when I think about it, that might be a slam at my writing abilities...hey!

In the end we had to let it go as it's simply not worth the legal cost to protect a single page. I don't like it, but I still intend to create hell if I find they are stealing stuff.

I agree 100% -- at least with the second sentence. I worked too hard to make my site to see someone else run off with pieces of it, as if it were theirs! I would scream like h*ll if someone came into my house and took a picture off the wall. To me, this was the same thing.

As to the cost of litigation, my son's attorney told him the fines, since there is legitimate damage because the images are how he makes his living, could be as much as $15,000 per image -- payable to him -- for someone violating his (properly filed with the Library of Congress) copyright. He has seen many of his images being used on other for-profit sites. Jeff figures the retainer fee to the attorney is worth it.

[herron]

johnrparry said:

...but if any of our pictures are that good, they should probably have it!

Ron, there you see the difference between us straight away!!!

John:
Without trying to sound boastful (hard to do when you're just typing) I do think I have some images that are pretty good (I have some pretty feeble ones, too :.

I've been told some of them should be entered into juried shows, or sold as prints! And I've seen worse. I've just never done anything with them.

At lot of the pictures others have posted in this forum are quality images, too. I would hate to think of someone else profiting (or even trying to profit) from any of our creative endeavors.

[John Parry]

Ron,

Oooops... I meant yours are worth protecting - unlike mine!

Regards - John