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Post by Journalist on May 29, 2006 16:08:47 GMT -5
Hi
I just got myself a couple of Agfa Isolettes I, II and III and they need som CLA. I have searched on the web and almost everywhere people seems to prefer lighterfluid for flushing/cleaning the shuttermechanism. Just one small question before I soak them in the stuff... As far as I am able to figure out, lighterfluid is petrolbased, means "greasy" won`t this leave a residue in the shuttermechanism? Or does any of you have some other good tips on cleaning sollution/fluid that will make the job and not leave any "greasy" stuff. Or... do the shutter need the "grease" not to dry out?? I have silicon grease for the threads and copperpaste for joints so that part is covered. Will som electroclean i.e CRC or similar do the job or is that a "no-no" Thanks in advance Øivind
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on May 29, 2006 17:36:31 GMT -5
Hi Øivind,
I know the term flush cleaning is widely used, but I'm not keen on it. Usually with a leaf shutter like the Prontors on your Isolettes the only part that gets gummed up is the slow speed train of gears. Unless I have to strip the shutter completely, which is seldom, I prefer to hold it vertically with the slow speed train at the bottom and just drop a small amount of lighter fluid on the train and leave it to drain off. That usually does the trick. I find that flooding the whole shutter with it washes any old oil onto the shutter blades and makes them stick. Most lighter fluid is naptha, and though it can leave a slight residue I've never found this a problem.
To get to the slow speed train you have to take off the speed control ring which means taking off the front element of the lens. When you put it back you have to reset its inifinity position. If you have any problems with this get back to me and I'll outline the method I use.
Peter
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Post by Journalist on May 29, 2006 17:52:32 GMT -5
Hi Peter Once again; thank you for the tips and useful information. The cameras are already disassembled, with everything necessary removed. I will do as you suggest, after all the shutters are not that dirty, just some "gruff" after 50 years of operation The shutterblades are dry and no signs of rust, so I better leave them alone, even if it`s very tempting to completely tear everything apart. (My dad won`t agree to this, I was about 4 years old when I "repaired" the radio, and he has never forgotten) Hmm... this mechanics are a tiny bit more fragile than my shipengines, but after all it`s just another piece of "click- clack" mechanics. Of course the bellows are somewhat crisp as well, so I guess I need to seal the corners on a couple of spots. After all I didn`t expect to much for 7.50 in the fleamarket. (100NOK) for all three cameras.
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Post by wolves3012 on Sept 18, 2006 15:33:00 GMT -5
Hi Øivind, Most lighter fluid is naptha, and though it can leave a slight residue I've never found this a problem. Peter Strictly speaking, naptha is a generic term for petroleum fractions of various types. Lighter fluid is usually a fraction known as SBP3, or close to it. I used to work in the printing ink trade where we used the stuff in large quantities, wish I'd "aquired" a bit more of it than I did now. Flammability is worth noting here, of course! A decent quality brand lighter fuel should have no non-volatiles but cheaper stuff often has an oily residue. For cleaning some parts that may not be a disadvantage but a better option is a watch-cleaning fluid (as for the old mechanical watches, that is!) if you can find a supply. Just be aware that you will flush out lubrication, so put some back where it's needed. Also be aware that sloshing the stuff around also re-distributes the "gunk" you were trying to remove. Best option is to dismantle the parts as fully as possible and do the job properly if you can. I learnt a lot from my father, he used to repair mechanical watches which have many parallels with old cameras!
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Post by John Parry on Sept 18, 2006 15:49:54 GMT -5
Wish I'd stocked up on the old RS contact cleaner, and about a gallon of carbon tetrachloride. Not PC? WC!
Regards - John
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Post by doubs43 on Sept 18, 2006 16:18:31 GMT -5
I keep a quart can of naptha and a quart can of denatured alcohol under my bench. Both clean shutter blades and leave no residue. However, the naptha dries much quicker than the alcohol.
For John and those in the UK, denatured alcohol is not sold without a license or permit as it can be used in explosives manufacture. I tried to buy some in Woodbridge once and that's what I was told.
Walker
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Sept 18, 2006 16:28:33 GMT -5
Never could stand the smell of CTC. If anyone wants a super degreaser for leaf shutters well away from the camera, try carb and injector cleaner from an automotive shop. It usually comes in aerosol cans but be warned, the vapour is LETHAL. Spray out of doors and wear a mask. Blow dry with compressed air. Also be warned that it leaves stuff squeaky clean. So much so that unless you relube the necessary bits the same day they're likely to go stiff or even seize up. Keep the shutter and iris working while you blow dry. Also be warned that it disolves several types of plastics.
I first used this on the horribly complicated shutter mechanism of a Robot II which a previous owner admitted he'd tried to 'lubricate' with a thick black molybdenum disuphide compound sold as an oil additive for car engines! The makers say it sticks to the metal, and I'll vouch for that. I couldn't find anything to shift it properly till I tried spraying it several times with injector cleaner.
Why didn't I take it apart and clean it the good old-fashioned way? If you've seen inside a Robot shutter mechanism you won't ask, and if you haven't, don't ask! It's like an illicit cross between a complicated Grande Sonnerie chimimg clock and a cine projector mechanism. The designer, Heinz Kilfit, was a watch and clock maker till he turned to cameras. He also designed some pretty fair lenses ... versatile fellow!
PeterW
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Sept 18, 2006 16:34:18 GMT -5
I thought denatured alcohol, with an additive to make in undrinkable except for those too far gone to care, was sold here in the UK as methylated spirit which I can buy in my local DIY supermarket Or is that something different?
PeterW
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Sept 18, 2006 18:48:57 GMT -5
BEWARE OF ALCOHOL!!! I have a beautiful old 6x9 Una Cameo in excellent conditon except for the aperture blades which turned to gelatinous blobs when I cleaned them with alcohol. It sits there forlornly waiting for a "parts" camera to becom available. It has been almost 5 years now.
Mickey
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Sept 18, 2006 19:42:22 GMT -5
Who made your Una, Mickey? The only Unas I can think of were made by Sinclair in London, but I don't recall an Una Cameo.
The blades were probably made from thin vulcanite. What shutter is it? I've got an old Bausch & Lomb Automatic two-bladed pneumatic shutter from about 1910 which I think has vulcanite blades but it's missing one of the air pistons. It's got a Beck Symmetrical lens on it.
If, by any remote chance, it's the same as yours you're welcome to it for parts, but I think it came from something bigger than 6x9. If your shutter is a Bausch & Lomb can you post a pic of it, and give the diameter?
PeterW
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Sept 19, 2006 10:29:44 GMT -5
Peter,
It says "UNA CAMEO" on the leather handle. I have been unable to find it in any of my catalogues. Based on the lens' manufacturer I presume Aldis made the camera. The lens is an Aldis Uno Anastigmat f7.7. It is not marked but I presume it is about 110cm. Aperture goes down to f45. The shutter is a "Lukos" II with speeds 25/50/100/B/T. There is the usual, for that period, a folding, swiveling finder. There is also a dried up spirit level. There is an ivory focussing scale in addition to the ground glass. Rising and falling lens panel. It also will shift side to side when I get a chance to free it. The number 415 is stamped on the back of the lens mount support. I thank you for your kind offer.
Years ago I used to buy alcohol in 55 gallon drums. It was denatured with a chemical called brucine sulfate to make it unpalatable. By the way, I purchased it at Gooderham & Worts in what is now The Distillery District. The drum was too big and heavy for my Austin A55 Cambridge so G & W delivered it gratis. They were always so pleasant to deal with. I suppose alcohol has a mellowing effect.
Mickey
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Post by doubs43 on Sept 19, 2006 11:55:03 GMT -5
I thought denatured alcohol, with an additive to make in undrinkable except for those too far gone to care, was sold here in the UK as methylated spirit which I can buy in my local DIY supermarket Or is that something different? PeterW Peter, denatured alcohol is called something different in England but as hard as I've thought about it, I can't recall what it was. There are no additives in mine so there is no residue when it dries. Rubbing alcohol, OTOH, has an oil additive that does leave a residue that makes it unsuitable for some uses. Walker
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Post by John Parry on Sept 19, 2006 14:48:09 GMT -5
Meths is OK takes the oxides off tape heads and CD Player lenses no problem. Just doesn't taste so good.
My schoolboyish understanding was that there are two types of alcohol - methyl and ethyl. Ethyl is good and can send you to sleep with a rosy glow, but methyl is bad and sends you off to sleep for ever, or can damage the optic nerves so badly that you go blind. Plus in meths they put a really bad taste, so that even though you pour a bottle through a loaf of bread, you can still smell and taste it.
Still what do I know? Regards - John
ps Will let you know when I get to that stage!!
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Post by wolves3012 on Sept 21, 2006 15:33:42 GMT -5
Meths is OK takes the oxides off tape heads and CD Player lenses no problem. Just doesn't taste so good. My schoolboyish understanding was that there are two types of alcohol - methyl and ethyl. Ethyl is good and can send you to sleep with a rosy glow, but methyl is bad and sends you off to sleep for ever, or can damage the optic nerves so badly that you go blind. Plus in meths they put a really bad taste, so that even though you pour a bottle through a loaf of bread, you can still smell and taste it. Still what do I know? Regards - John ps Will let you know when I get to that stage!! Ok, here's the answer from a qualified chemist (AKA me): There are many "alcohols", methyl and ethyl are just two of a whole family (iso-propyl is commonly used in tape-head cleaners and after-shave). The drinkable one is ethyl alcohol, usually just known as alcohol. The methylated spirits you can buy from a chemist contains a few percent methyl alcohol, which is toxic and cannot be removed by distilling the stuff - the very reason it's added. They also add a purple dye and, IIRC pyridine, which makes it smell & taste disgusting so you won't drink it. Ethyl alcohol can only be sold if you have a licence and if you denature it with TWO from an approved list of denaturants. UK regulations for all of the above. For cleaning purposes etc there is no problem with using methylated spirits, other than that it doesn't smell too nice! However, Iso-propyl alcohol IF you can get it without additives, would be a better choice since it'll be purer and it dries a little slower.
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Post by John Parry on Sept 21, 2006 15:41:00 GMT -5
Thanks Wolves - Thought that's what I said!
Only joking - the more genuine information that people post on here the better, and I'll always stand to be corrected.
Regards - John
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