Kiev 2a shutter repair

[physiognomy]

I'm feeling pretty good about some repair success over the weekend & I thought I'd share my first serious attempt at fixing a fsu camera... Apart from adjusting the rangefinder on my FED 5B I've really not had to do much to my various Kiev, FED, & Zorki's. I guess this was more through luck & choosing the right sellers than anything else, but I figured it was time to get my hands dirty.

Recently I bought a '56 Kiev 2a on RFF & have enjoyed using a non-metered Kiev body. Almost immediately I knew that this camera would be a keeper & not having seen too many 2a's around wondered what I would do if I ever needed parts. I guess it was a bit of a funny thought because there are so many 4's to be had, but a part of me likes to keep things original... Anyway, I saw a mislabeled listing for a 'parts Kiev 4' on ebay that was actually a 2a, so I picked it up fairly cheaply & my problem was solved.

Why I initially thought I'd just pack this 2a with it's stuck shutter away for latter is beyond me because before it even got here I was looking up the Kiev Survival Site (www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/) & thinking about what needed to be done to get it back in working order... When the camera arrived I was pleased to find that it wasn't all that bad & was a candidate for repair. Here is a list of the first obvious problems that I noticed:

Some minor external 'corrosion' from being stored in it's ERC
Broken lens lock on helical (should be able to get one from a parts 4)
Lots of cleaning marks on front element of J8 (might send it to Arax for a re-coat)
Very stiff aperture ring on the J8 (looks like I'm going to buy a lens spanner)
Missing screws on faceplate (another swap from a parts 4?)
Broken shutter ribbons

Initially the list above was a little daunting (esp. the last one), but I tried to be positive & sought out some positives to fuel my motivation for the repair:

The RF patch is as bright as I have ever seen in a Kiev
RF alignment seems right on
Helical is smooth & probably will be ok without a re-lube
ERC has older block Cyrillic insignia on the front (they really made them well back then!)
Cosmetics pretty good overall for a camera made in 1957
Oh, and I saw an amazing '57 T-bird that day... definitely my favorite American classic car...

To start with, here is a picture taken after I removed the face plate (one of the rangefinder masks was floating around loose in there) & the film plane casting to see what was up with the shutter. Not really a pretty sight, but that didn't deter me since there are good instructions for replacing the shutter ribbons online.



Peter

[physiognomy]

Initially I sought out some online sources for suitable replacement ribbon material, but soon found that I'd be paying up to $13 for a meter of the original Arsenal ribbon & waiting for it to be shipped from the Ukraine... I was hoping that things would go a little faster, so I asked around on RFF & luckily Russ Pinchbeck (author of the Kiev Survival Site) suggested some ribbon available here in the US. I called by a local Jo-Anne fabrics & the staff seemed familiar with “Grosgrain ribbon” & was taken straight to it by a very helpful lady. I was expecting it to be a little more robust, but it does have the sealed edges I noticed on the original Arsenal stuff & it seems quite strong. For the price (something like $2 for 10 yards!) I was pretty happy!



Peter

[physiognomy]

My next move was to look for another 'parts' Kiev as a source for the lens lock & face plate screws that were missing from the 2a. I know I intended to keep this 2a original, but I realized that this was going to be expensive/time consuming to source another 2a, so I found a cheap Kiev 4 on ebay. Thinking about it more I started to get the idea that if the shutter worked my first move might be to swap out the shutters & then work on getting the ribbons sorted. I also figured once I have the original shutter up & running again I will put it back in the 2a. Here is a pic of the 'parts' Kiev 4:



To be honest, I'm glad I didn't buy a 4a for parts because I would have had a hard time cannibalizing it! The only things wrong with it turned out to be the broken glass for the rf & a non-working meter. Other than that it was a really nice camera! The winding mechanism wasn't as smooth as my black '63 Kiev 4, but I thought it will do nicely as a donor for the 2a until I got around to fixing the original shutter.

Peter

[physiognomy]

I wanted to share some pictures of the dismantling process for those that are interested... The first one is removal of the film rewind. Not much to it really, but if doing it again for the first time I will take note of the initial amount of resistance on the rewind knob so that you know how tight to make it during reassembly... I think I may have tightened mine too much.



The second one shows the external chrome top plate removed to uncover the metal top casting. No wonder Kiev's are a little weighty as this is quite the chunk of metal! I removed the shoe for cleaning at this stage (it's amazing how much dirt accumulates under there!), but it is not necessary to get the casting off.



The third pic shows the top casting removed... I put the film counter dial back in place for this shot as a reminder where everything sat. It was only a matter of removing 6 or 7 more screws & the whole shutter assembly could be taken out. In my next post I'll include pictures showing the shutter removed & the working one being installed.



Peter

[physiognomy]

The next shot I have to share of the shutter swap shows the original broken shutter completely removed from the body... Russ' site mentions that it might need a little bit of 'wiggling' to get it out, and I agree, but it did come away fairly easily. I was so interested in checking it out that I forgot about the possibility of the upper curtain rod falling out. Luckily for me it seemed to stay put pretty well despite me turning it on end a few times. Next time I will definitely heed the advice to stick some tape over the end of it. I think it might be a good idea to leave it there to avoid problems if there is need to remove the shutter again.



This picture shows the working Kiev 4 shutter ready to be put into the 2a. I found that it was definitely much easier to remove a shutter the 2nd time around. When I took out the first one I took pictures at each step in case I forgot something, but I found that it really is pretty easy to follow Russ' instructions if you lay out each part you remove in sequence. By the time you do it a couple of times it becomes more intuitive & I feel confident I could do it now without checking what to do next after each screw... I definitely did gain a huge amount of respect for people like G'man, Oleg & others who fiddle cameras all the time! Following good instructions is one thing, but the ability to search out problems & then fixing them just blows me away! Without instructions on which screws were necessary to remove I'm sure I would have had all sorts of things falling off that I would have had no chance of putting back together!



Here is the working shutter placed in to the Kiev 2a body... At this stage I just couldn't wait & all I wanted to do was wind the thing & see if I had succeeded. Maybe it is just my shutter, but I definitely would advise against doing this! It wound & fired ok, but not having the film casting to guide it (?)the lower curtain was pushed outward when the upper curtain dropped & they didn't rejoin properly. At first I didn't notice this & would have had big problems if I just put it all back together. When trying to wind it again the flash sync arm caught up the left side of the lower curtain & held it until the two curtains seperated. Luckily the shutter still fired & was able to lift the lower curtain away from where it was caught & sort it out, but it was something I'd definitely rather have avoided. Once the film plane casting was back in place everything seemed to work fine & has so after 100 or so test firings at different speeds.



Peter

[physiognomy]

Well, after all that I just have to say I DID IT !!!! I will admit that I spent quite a few hours swapping over the shutters (actually it took me pretty much all afternoon sunday & part of the evening!). Since I was putting so much effort into dismantling 2 Kievs to make one working camera I also cleaned up the chrome & touched up the black paint... For cleaning I used the 1:1 hydrogen peroxide & ammonia solution that was recommended here & found it worked great for cleaning up all the dirt & green 'corrosion' on the chrome.

I think it looks pretty good!



Peter

ps The project isn't totally completed & I still have to adjust a few things here & there (I also forgot to reattach the flash sync ), but for now I'm pretty happy with my first serious repair job!

[herron]

Peter:
What a GREAT sequence! Thank you for sharing the results of your labor! I've copied everything, in case I ever need it to repair my own Kiev!

Thanks again! ;D

[kiev4a]

You are a braver man than I am, Gunga Din! I've worked with FSU Leica copy shutters but the Contax/Kiev shutter intimidates the h3ll out of me. Don't think I could ever bring myself to attempt it. Congratulations!

[John Parry]

Too scary Peter!!

Very well done - I might venture to remove a cover to resolder the odd corroded battery wire, or place a speck of lighter fluid on a gear train, but you are talking about being able to dismantle and put the whole thing back together here!

I'll be in touch!!

Regards - John

[PeterW]

Hi Peter,
Congratulations on successfully tackling your Kiev shutter. Your sequence of pics brought back some frustrating memories.

Two or three years ago I stripped out a seized Kiev 4 which I picked up cheaply. Eventually I found where it was seized; the sleeve gear (one plain gear and one bevel gear) just above the sprocket shaft, the one that takes the drive to the curtain top roller when you wind on, had corroded inside and seized on its bush.

The bush has to come free before you can take out the sleeve gear, which was a struggle, and meant taking out most of the other gears between it and the wind-on knob - yes, the top curtain shaft DID fall out. But eventually I managed it, cleaned everything and reassembled.

Then I found I'd got something out of sequence in the gear line-up, either in the wind-on train or the link to the slow speed train because try as I would I couldn't get the damn thing to work properly.

At the time I had an email correspondence with Russ Pichbeck about it, and he tried to help with a lot of good advice, but neither of us could see where I'd gone wrong. Eventually, after stripping and rebuilding it at least five times I gave up and put the parts away in a box to be tackled 'later', and more or less forgot about it.

Your pictures and success have prompted me to get the box out for yet another try. I've got Peter Tooke's excellent book and video on stripping and repairing a Contax II, which is essentially the same as a Kiev, but I haven't visited Russ' website for some time, not since he moved it in fact. I must have a look there to see what's new, and perhaps renew acquaintance with him. He is a really nice helpful person, and a real Kiev enthusiast.

The silly part of it is that this was the third Kiev I'd had apart, one of them right down to the bare chassis because someone had doused it with WD40 and I had to strip it completely to clean it. The first two I rebuilt went like a dream. I don't know what I did differently on the third one, but I'll bet if I eventually find out it will be something stupid and 'DOH!!'

I took some pictures while I was stripping it, and I've I've posted a couple here because if anyone comes across the same fault it can a very difficult one to pinpoint because it isn't obvious and you can't see anything wrong from the outside.


Lifting out the sleeve gear after eventually freeing it from its bush.



This is where the bush had corroded inside the gear and locked the two solid.

Thanks for giving me the spur to have another try.

PeterW

[PeterW]

Peter:

Just another thought on Kiev shutter repairs. On the first one I tacked I had to renew the ribbons and bought a couple of metres of ribbon locally. It wasn't Grossgrain, but very similar, and had 'closed' edges.

Following a tip from someone who has replaced ribbons in a couple of Contaxes I hung the ribbon up with a 4 lb weight hanging on the bottom and left it for a week to pre-stretch it.

Out of curiosity I made a couple of marks on it and meaured between them. In the week it stretched about 3mm over a 1 metre length, only a 0.03 per cent stretch, but I'd sooner have it stretch before use than in service.

I mention this in case you haven't yet renewed your ribbons.

PeterW

[physiognomy]

Hey, thanks everyone! I was definitely hesitant at first, but once I started I soon realized that I could remember where it all went back & definitely felt more confident. I did fill two SD cards with quick shots showing where each screw came from though, so I had a fall-back in case I got lost.

Sorry to hear about your Kiev frustrations Peter... If it would help I can post more pictures of a working Kiev shutter, but I think you might have more luck looking over Russ' site. He has a section called 'How it works' with a description of the winding mechanism... Here's a link: www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/shutter%20winding%20mechanism.html

Also, a big thanks for the suggestion to pre-strech the ribbon before using it... I will certainly do that before I attempt fixing my broken shutter.

Peter

[nash26]

Nov 28, 2006 13:28:31 GMT -5 physiognomy said:

My next move was to look for another 'parts' Kiev as a source for the lens lock & face plate screws that were missing from the 2a. I know I intended to keep this 2a original, but I realized that this was going to be expensive/time consuming to source another 2a, so I found a cheap Kiev 4 on ebay. Thinking about it more I started to get the idea that if the shutter worked my first move might be to swap out the shutters & then work on getting the ribbons sorted. I also figured once I have the original shutter up & running again I will put it back in the 2a. Here is a pic of the 'parts' Kiev 4:



To be honest, I'm glad I didn't buy a 4a for parts because I would have had a hard time cannibalizing it! The only things wrong with it turned out to be the broken glass for the rf & a non-working meter. Other than that it was a really nice camera! The winding mechanism wasn't as smooth as my black '63 Kiev 4, but I thought it will do nicely as a donor for the 2a until I got around to fixing the original shutter.

Peter