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Post by John Parry on Nov 30, 2008 2:31:38 GMT -5
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Nov 30, 2008 10:44:20 GMT -5
Fascinating pictures, John, and very well taken. I was particularly interested in the depictions of life aboard an early 19th century frigate as my great-great-grandfather James Wallage spent most of his life in the RN under sail, the last 30 or so years as a bos'n. He was at one time bos'n on HMS Revenge but whether or not this was while the Revenge was at Trafalgar I haven't yet been able to establish.
James was joined by his son Thomas aged 12 years as a boy entrant. After leaving the RN Thomas joined the Honourable East India Company and eventually commanded their paddle-wheel gunship Nemesis.
PeterW
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Post by nikonbob on Nov 30, 2008 12:38:24 GMT -5
John
It is a very interesting series of posts and photos you have done, thanks for the fine effort. Makes me glad I missed the days of wooden ships and steel men. I am going to make sure that I get there, sometime.
PeterW
The position of Bos'n has evolved into a trade, at least it was when I was in the Reserve, and they form the Deck Dept..
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2008 18:48:09 GMT -5
John:
Thanks for posting the shots. They are great--especially for a history buff like me.
Wayne
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Dec 1, 2008 9:30:51 GMT -5
Bob,
Not sure about nowadays, but certainly in the 18th and 19th century Royal Navy the position of Bos'n (from boat + swain, or boat lover, and sometimes abbreviated to Bo'sun) was definitely an appointment.
A Bos'n was a Warrant Officer and received his Royal Warrant after a vocal examination and interview at which his Captain attested to his loyalty, honesty and efficiency. The Bos'n was in charge of all the deck hands and responsible for the sails, rigging, cordage, anchors and cables - the large ropes attached to the anchors, general deck discipline and for ensuring that the Captain's orders were carried out smartly and efficiently.
On larger ships the Bos'n had one or more Bos'n's Mates, hand-picked from the best seamen, to assist him. In battle it was customary for the Bos'n to take the wheel - hence the expression 'Bos'n at the wheel, Sir' - leaving control of the deck hands to the chief Bosn's Mate.
The normal progresion was from Bos'n's Mate to Bos'n, and James Wallage (he spelled his name Walladge in those days, later dropping the 'd') was certainly listed as Warrant Officer on HMS Revenge in 1806 but whether or not he was on the Revenge at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805, either as Bos'n or Bos'n's Mate I haven't yet established.
In 1828, when he was fifty, James was taken sick when the Revenge was on its way home and spent the rest of the voyage in the sick bay, presumably with the Chief Bo's'n's Mate standing in for him. He recovered, but was taken off active duty and spent the last months of his service in charge of a supply ship moored at the Royal Dockyard at Deptford on the south bank of the Thames in south-east London. He left the Navy on April 13, 1829.
He must have been quite a tough character to spend more than 30 years on active deck service in the RN in those rough, hard days of sail.
PeterW
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Post by olroy2044 on Dec 1, 2008 13:01:37 GMT -5
John--Keep 'em coming! Great shots! I'm very glad to see that the sail era is being preserved in this way. Those guys had to be some of the toughest men in history! Some day I want to be present for one of the Great Ship parades. Roy
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2008 13:57:08 GMT -5
Rule Britannia. Britannia Rules the Waves!
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SidW
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Post by SidW on Dec 1, 2008 19:55:43 GMT -5
Excellent John.
Peter, while scouring the web for background information on my grandfather's service, I saw a list of men who served at Trafalgar. Sorry I didn't bookmark it, but it's out there. I'll try to find it again. Have you got ypur bosun's service record from the Public Records Office? It should show where he was posted in 1805. From the service record you can continue to the log books of the ships, also at the PRO.
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PeterW
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Post by PeterW on Dec 2, 2008 9:26:28 GMT -5
Sid, Thanks for the thoughts. I can't get about as much as I used to, but my cousin Chris, now retired, is also keen on researching the family's history and has been to the new National Records Office at Kew where he searched through quite a few original Royal Navy documents including ships' muster roles. He took some pictures with his digital camera - that's allowed at Kew though flash isn't - and I'm waiting to hear from him when he gets his pictures and notes sorted out. He has also been to the Dorset County Archive Office and found a parish record of James Wallage's marriage which he was also allowed to photograph. Permission to take no-flash photographs of original documents is only recently starting to spread at Records Offices. Unfortunately it does not apply at the British Museum archives where, in the Indian and Oriental section I found a large 19th century volume from the Calcutta records office with handwritten copies of my great grandfather Thomas Wallage's will made aboard the East India Company's gunship Nemesis in Penang Harbour. He was First Officer at the time. There was also a handwritten copy of his widow's application for probate. I asked for permission to take photographs of the pages but was told that photography was not allowed as tripods were not allowed, and flash could affect the ink - it was already a faded brown colour. I appreciated this and said that I did not need to use flash nor a tripod as I could take adequate hand-held pictures by the available light of a desk lamp using a digital camera. Their reply was that digital cameras have automatic flash which you can't turn off. I could, however, have photocopies at £10 a page!!  I didn't feel like paying £40 for four photocopied sheets, and pointed out that I could switch the flash off, and in any case the UV light in a photocopier would probably affect the ink more than camera flash but was told "Sorry, those are the rules". I started to make handwritten notes but didn't get them finished as some of the writing was difficult to read and by then I had only 10 minutes till closing time. John says that some time after Christmas he will drive me up to spend a day browsing at the National Records Office at Kew where they have a much more enlightened attitude to allowing hand-held, no flash, digital photography of original documents. I shall wait till I hear from my cousin Chris as I don't want to spend a lot of time duplicating his searches. Unfortunately all the original records of the East India Company - over a century of them - aren't at Kew, they are in the British Museum Library. I'm hoping that they will soon fall into line with other Records Offices and allow no-flash photography. PeterW |
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Post by John Parry on Dec 3, 2008 22:27:08 GMT -5
Wayne
When the Trincomalee was launched, American frigates were theoretically more efficient in terms of fire power - larger and lighter, they used 24 pounders as their main armament. In a one to one engagement, the American frigates only had to stand off and pound their opponents from a distance.
Frigates like the Trincomalee had been designed to fight European opponents. It was down to the British Captains - most of whom had been at sea for 25 years or so, to get in close, where their better trained crews could fire three broadsides against the enemy's two.
As Napoleon said when the blockade was seriously affecting his fighting capabilities - "Wherever there is a fathom of water, there you will find the Royal Navy."
Peter, If he was on the Revenge in 1806, I would be surprised had he not been there at Trafalgar - especially as he was on board in 1828. Only the most trusted hands ever got any leave (3 days was common). A full bos'n would have been unlikely to have been sent away as a prize crew (and Revenge was probably too big to have been capturing many prizes), or to have been detailed to a new build - they would have taken the next due for promotion for that. Hope you manage to confirm it.
Roy
I took my family to see the Tall Ships sail out of Liverpool. Actually, they all motored out of Liverpool, as Liverpool Bay is considered far too dangerous to navigate under sail these days - ha!
We went to watch it from Crosby, and the whole shore was black with people who'd gone to watch the spectacle. The kids were playing, the wives were chatting, and the blokes eventually got to talking. "Did you ever go to sea?". "Yes - I was with Blue Flue (Blue Funnel Steamers)". "I was with Clan Line Line". "I was with Furness Withy". "I was in the Andrew (the Royal Navy)". "I was with Marrs trawlers". Nearly all of us had been to sea at one time or another. Obviously we had all taken our families to see the ships, so the sample was somewhat 'skewed', but that experience really brought it home to me that we really are a seafaring nation. Go and see them - preferably under sail if you get the chance.
Just an aside, as we're on the subject of ships. We've just waved goodbye to the QE2 - gone to become a floating hotel in Dubai. And the original Queen Mary is in Long Beach as a nightclub. As far as I'm concerned, the QE2 was the last of the 'lookers'. Time was, when ships were designed to look nice - as well as being seaworthy. The QE2's replacement is the Queen Mary, and she looks like a floating block of flats. Some of the Caribbean cruise liners (that Disney thing!) are even worse. Hard as it is for me to admit it, the loveliest ship I've ever seen was the SS France. Ah - things were better in the olden days!!
Regards - John
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