Send in the Clones - Cosina Again!

[paulatukcamera]

"Isn't it rich?
Isn't it queer,
Losing my timing this late
In my career?
And where are the clones?
There ought to be clones.
Well, maybe next year."

Apologies to the original lyricist! (Is that bad enough to get me flung out?)


Now gather round ladies and gentleman, I can now present you with some new evidence, as my Vivitar 35ES arrived yesterday.

With the prices of these reaching the stratosphere (seen a Hi-matic 7s11 reach $160 recently) and no real research into the Cosina connection I thought I'd present the -

Cosina Research Institute at Camera Collector with a new project.



Looking at them very carefully now, only two things emerge as fact:

1. The Konica S3 has the same body as C35 (behind it on the left)
2. The Vivitar 35S is identical in almost all respects with the Revue 400 (German camera shop brand - available in chrome & black) There is one just sold on eBay with very good multiple photos and the features are identical bar one - the self-timer lever which looks like the Minolta one.
cgi.ebay.co.uk/Revue-400SE-Beautiful-35mm-rangefinder-camera_W0QQitemZ270076208646QQihZ017QQcategoryZ30099QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So, on balance of probability these are same camera:
Minolta Hi-matic 7 S11 - Vivitar 35ES - Revue 400SE

Why "on balance?" Small differences in the top housing pressing that are easy to explain but the internal lens housing is identical so I think they are. However the film tracking rails are a different design - seems odd this differs. (especially as its a casting)

However the Konicas and the Minolta Hi-matic F are to a different design - honestly! If you hold them base to base, the two Konicas and the Minolta are slightly smaller. Only a mm or two I grant you, but a completely different body IMHO. The conclusive proof for me is the design of the back - it is straight whereas the others have a stepped base to the door. They also have a side mounted flash socket - absent on the first lot.

A further difference is the Hi-matic F differs from the whole lot in that its film chamber design is a "one off"

So two bodies designs, not one. Maybe a third, for the Hi-matic F has this plastic (cost cutting?) interior.

So were they made by Cosina - or perhaps Cosina made some and Konica really did make its own + the Himatic F?

Any Ideas?

Paul

[John Parry]

Paul

Very nearly! That's bad!!

Not well enough versed in the Cosina saga to comment - I have only a CT1A and a CT1-G - bot of which I have given to my daughter Nadiah to evaluate (along with an M42 > Pentax K converter).

My initial reaction was that both of them are very lightweight and quite versatlile cameras - but I'll wait for Nadiah's pronouncement on the pair of them.

Regards - John

[camerastoomany]

If I put my Hi-matic G next to the C35 they seem to be the same camera. The Mamiya 135 looks much the same. The Mamiya man might know something about that one. I recall reading somewhere that the Hi-matic G was rebadged as a Revue, although I don't remember which model. ........... Geoff

[herron]

Geoff --
ya know...I even mention the Minolta Hi-Matic F in the Mamiya 135 space on my web site...but I've never found any production data that would let me tie the two of them together. The only physical difference (outwardly) that I can see is that little red whatever on the top plate of the Hi-Matic.

Mamiya did a lot of rebranding of its cameras in the early 60s (see my related article on my web site) -- but there is no record of a Mamiya-Minolta-Cosina link.

Doesn't mean it couldn't happen though, does it?

[camerastoomany]

Ron,
I should be doing other things but I took a look at Matt Denton's and a Minolta site. And yours; very interesting but I don't think I'll start collecting Mamiya (come to think of it, I already have two slrs and a rangefinder or two). It seems the Mamiya, Cosina, Vivitar EE and Revue 400 S are Hi-matic G variants. Does that mean Minolta made them all? But then I noted that most of the cameras branded Revue were made by Cosina. Does that mean the Minolta and others mentioned are variants of the Cosina. Or did Mamiya make them for the others!
The Minolta 7SII is apparently a modified Revue 400 SE or vice versa. I don't have a 7SII but I do have the Minolta Hi-matic 7S, which is clearly a different camera. My Hi-matic 9 is an improved version of the 7S and very similar. So why did Minolta produce a different model and call it a 7SII (1977), having already followed the 7S with a 9 (1966) then an 11 (1969) which is sort of an automatic version of the 9. Kind of messes up the numerical sequence. Perhaps the answer is that Cosina produced the Revue for the Germans and Minolta. Minolta then called it a 7SII because 13 is, after all, an unlucky number.
Whew! if I keep this up, I'll start thinking I could write fantasy novels.
Whoever made them, they all take great photos (I can only speak for the ones I own, of course).
Geoff

[Randy]

I think Bill covers this on his Cosina site, there is a link on the Cosina Files page.

[Reiska]

One thing I can say for sure, Revue is not made by Revue.
I remember, that I have red somewhere about the similarity of
Konica Auto S3 and Revue 400. Was it Matt Denton, or who??

I have only Hi Matic F and a Konica Auto S3. Here is the guts of them for someone to look.
As Paul wrote the material in Hi-Matic is plastic.

Konica on the top.