Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 3, 2012 4:34:19 GMT -5
Hello everybody, I am chasing light leaks again I found a Konica EE matic in the junk box of my favorite camera shop recently and after checking it, I actually couldn't find anything wrong and inserted a first test film. The selenium meter based auto exposure function seems to work still marvelous, but the camera is leaking light from somewhere ... and I really can't imagine, from where that could be Here is one of the pictures from the first test roll: light leaks by bokuwanihongasuki, on Flickr Light is leaking from the upper right side on most of the pictures ( don't pay attention to the vertical stripe on the left - it is just on this picture ). It is just on the inner frame ( not on the perforation ), which means to me, that the light must come from the front. But ... between the lens and the film, there is just a metal chamber, which can impossibly leak light ( and I couldn't find anything when checking it with a flashlight too ). The shutter also seems to work properly, smooth and closing completely. This camera does have only one shutter speed anyway. Strange though, that the light leaking issue did not occur on pictures, taken with flashlight ... but I don't know, what conclusion I should make from that. Any ideas ? It's actually a fantastic camera and I like it, especially because exposure automatic and rangefinder still seem to work perfectly. Her is a picture of the camera itself as well: Konica EE matic by bokuwanihongasuki, on Flickr Thanks a lot and cheers from Tokyo, Berndt
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Apr 3, 2012 7:34:04 GMT -5
I suppose those flash exposure depend on 1) how long each frame was in place ready for/immediately after the photo was taken 2) how bright the ambient light was. If it was pitch black, then (other than a lens problem itself) it wouldn't have a light leak. Even if there was some light it would surely be less than daylight (other than for synchro-sun). If wound on immediately maybe the frame wouldn't sit there long enough.
I suppose it becomes a process of elimination - some parts easy, some less so.
Do you think it might be from the central part of the door? (As it isn't affecting the perforation area.) It seems a fairly straight line. Is it the same on other frames?
As regards the shutter, I would have presumed there are several speeds, but that they not selectable by the operator.
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Apr 3, 2012 7:50:48 GMT -5
berndt,
I just checked my EEmatic S. I noticed that the foam seal on the side of the door opposite to the hinge has deteriorated slightly. This would seem to be about the right place for your light leak. Other than that all closures seem to be of overlapping metal.
Mickey
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 3, 2012 8:48:55 GMT -5
Dave, Mickey, thanks so much for your quick reply. I really appreciate your detective skills This stuff can drive one crazy I didn't mean the straight thin line. This just appeared on this picture and might be a film issue. I mean the bright leak, coming from the upper right side ... and yes, as the perforation area has not been affected, it should come from the central part of the door ... or not ? Here are two more pictures from the test film. FH000036 by bokuwanihongasuki, on Flickr FH000037 by bokuwanihongasuki, on Flickr One is immediately ( less than one minute ) taken after the other. The light leaking does not appear on the second picture, which would be some hint for me, that it is not the lens. The leaking must happen inbetween taking two pictures and if the time is short, not so much light ( or none ) can leak in. Also unlikely, that the leak is somewhere in the area of the film taking spool ( right side of the camera ), because it would effect all pictures ( incl. perforation ) then, because each frame is remaining there for a while ( except, I would shoot 3-4 pictures quickly one after the next ). It's a puzzle ... So you mean the left side of the door ? Where the film canister is inserted ? There is no foam seal on my camera and it looks, that there has never been one. It would also be the wrong side for the leak, wouldn't it ? Or ... I understood wrong Here is a snapshot, how the camera looks from the back side ( open ). back side by bokuwanihongasuki, on Flickr There is actually not much, what could leak - especially not in the area of the inner film frame. There is also no light leaking inbetween the frames, which also made me thinking, that it actually has to come from the front ( somewhere between the lens and the actual film frame ). There is some kind of "metal chamber" ( I don't know, how to explain it better ), reaching from the film door to the lens. It is a little bit loose ... but if that is causing the leak, wouldn't I be able to detect it with a flash light then ? And I can't
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Post by 33dollars on Apr 3, 2012 9:22:12 GMT -5
When the rear door is open I would say the light leak is coming from the lower left. To check that the door is the source of the leak. Load film & mask door with black electrical tape. If the film looks OK, Replace the door foam & try another roll.
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Apr 3, 2012 9:40:41 GMT -5
I didn't either! Berndt, sorry, I didn't make myself clear - I meant the fact that the light leak was fairly straight edged near to the right border of the photo as we look at, then lessens as it goes towards the centre (no American spelling for me! ;D). I would presume it it were anything to do with the lens mounting it would be more circular or diffuse.
As you say, should there be seal in the well that the door shuts against? I can't tell on the photo if there is any there or not in any of the well. I have a Olympus 35 EC (I think that's the model). I picked what remained of the door light-seal out a while ago as it had gone all gooey. I haven't got round to replacing it yet. Perhaps the previous owner did the same with you camera.
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Apr 3, 2012 9:47:03 GMT -5
Just thinking further - if there were a light leak to the side of the cassette the light would tend to hit the film in about that place. The cassette finishes quite close to the opening where the lens projects the image. The thickness of the cassette would cast a bit of shade over the very edge of the image - hence the first part "fogged" is part the way in and reasonably straight edged. Does that make sense?
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Apr 3, 2012 12:52:30 GMT -5
Let me think out loud.
The image at the film plane is inverted. Hence the light leak striking the inverted image must come from the lower left of the camera. The deteriorating (or, possibly missing) foam will be on the left side when the back is closed. Regardless if there is or is not a foam light seal the leak must come from the lower left AFTER the image has gone through the lens and been inverted. It doesn't seem likely. Your hand would be covering the lower left. A light leak being so close to the film would probably have sharp edges.
OR
It is lens flair which occurred prior to the image finishing passing through the lens. In which case it would be coming from the upper right which is the area occupied by the bright sky. It would brobably have soft edges. There is no light leak. This is beginning to appear probable.
OR
There is nothing wrong with the picture. We are all suffering from mass hysteria.
Mickey
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Post by nikonbob on Apr 3, 2012 18:21:23 GMT -5
When the rear door is open I would say the light leak is coming from the lower left. To check that the door is the source of the leak. Load film & mask door with black electrical tape. If the film looks OK, Replace the door foam & try another roll. I'm thinking the same thing. Image is inverted and flipped when taken so that would mean an upper right leak is from the lower left. When you take a vertical shot your grip on the camera changes from what it is in the landscape mode. That may have blocked the leak somehow. So yea try masking the film door. Replace the seals if that fixes the leak. Bob
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 3, 2012 20:55:02 GMT -5
Mickey, you are right !!! The picture is of course horizontally mirrored. I guess, it has been already too late last night and my mind became confused I need to tape the back door and sacrifice another film, I guess. It's just, that I still can't imagine, that it is the back door. It is not deviated and closing properly ... and even if the light seals around the edges became rotten, the door is constructed in a way, that its edges fit into a slot (?) I mean, light can not pass around three corners. Additional, there is also a plate on the inside of the door, pressing on the film and as I said, no light leaking on the perforation of the film, which should become hit first ( or at least also ), I think. But I guess, that's what I need to do ... taping the door for eliminating or approving this theory. As for the second and third possibility, Mickey ... I can't imagine lens flare as a cause, because the effect also occured on pictures in the shadow ( with no bright sky ), but according to a possible mass hysteria ... well ... ;D ... I feel attacked by that somehow, facing this crazy light leaking stuff ... hahaha ...
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Apr 4, 2012 0:23:01 GMT -5
Light is almost as amazing as water for finding its way into places. the paint used on cameras is often s low-gloss black. It will certainly reflect some light and that light will bounce off in all directions. I would assume if there were no need to use a light-seal rubber/sponge/felt the manufacturers wouldn't have used any. The fact that they do makes it, to me, a logical assumption that without that seal light will seep in.
Don't forget that the exposures might have been 1/125 at f11 (say). Even if it only a hint of a pin-prick of light while the film sits there it can be collecting that light for minutes, hours or days. Even a second is 125 times as long time wise as the film gets when being exposed.
The lens itself is easy to test - take a photo with the lens cap on. Many people have tried this over the years! ;D The back too - as has been said, use tape. Other possible sources aren't as easy to get at.
The centre point of light "infestation" is just above midway (or below on the camera).
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 4, 2012 6:48:45 GMT -5
First of all, thanks everybody for trying to help me in this issue !!! I shot a second testfilm today, completely taping the door ... and I don't know, if it's a good or bad news ... nothing changed The camera is still leaking light as before. Where the hell is the light coming from ? Looking at the pictures, it should come somewhere from down left ... but I taped everything there. Do I need to give up ? It's a mystery About 20% of the pictures haven't been affected at all, some slightly and some heavily, horizontally, vertically taken, in strong as in weak light. I can't detect any system in it. still leaking by bokuwanihongasuki, on Flickr still leaking 2 by bokuwanihongasuki, on Flickr So sad. Besides the light leaking, this camera is working absolutely marvelous and I have been quite surprised, how exact this selenium meter based auto exposure function is. I tried all kinds of tricky situations ... low light, mixed light, against the light ... it never failed. Much better than the Canonet and it's really a shame, that it is light leaking Do I cry ? YES, I do ...
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mickeyobe
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Post by mickeyobe on Apr 4, 2012 7:08:20 GMT -5
berndt,
Like a drowning man reaching for a straw .......
Could it be something on one of the lens elements or between the elements or a defective element?
Gurgle, gurgle.
Mickey
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daveh
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Post by daveh on Apr 4, 2012 7:18:14 GMT -5
I was thinking at this stage to block off fully between the lens, its housing and the film chamber. Just run a few frames. If there is still light getting in it must be from the film side: if clear then it is something on the lens side. Another option might be to try to run some backing paper through with the film, like from the old 828 film (which I believe had the same dimension as 35mm but without all the perforations.). It might take a bit to do, but it might just help.
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 4, 2012 8:27:39 GMT -5
Thanks Mickey and Dave ... but I actually can't imagine anything, what could cause a light leak from the lens. I checked the lenses ( just from outside though ). They are clean and tightly mounted. If from the lens side, it could only be the shutter ... but I can't find anything wrong about it. My ( sometimes ) ingenius wife, who actually does not understand anything about cameras, assumed, that the shutter might already open during the light measurement ( while pressing the shutter half down ), but I checked that too. Everything seems to work perfectly. Pressing the shutter half down, you can see, that exposure automatic is adjusting the aperture, but the lens is still closed and just opens and close in the proper way, when the shutter button is pressed down completely. There is nothing sticking as often experienced on old folders.
The actually last possibility, I can imagine ( even not verly likely and it wouldn't fit to the location of the light leaks on the pictures ) is ... the film counter window. There is some small piece of metal sticking out right above the film taking spool ( in the slit, where the door will close ). No idea, what function it has, but it might be a weakpoint. I taped everything from outside but if I point my trusted LED flashlight on the film counter window, I can see light coming out at that point. It actually shouldn't reach the film chamber but ... who knows ? Sad, that I forgot to tape it as well today.
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