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Post by Peltigera on Apr 27, 2013 5:59:40 GMT -5
This year I seem to be drawn to less common cameras. In January I bought a Bencini Comet S which uses 127 film - very hard to get hold of now. For some reason, the design looks very Italian (yes, I know, but other cameras all look much the same regardless of where they come from). Then I bought a Yamato Pal Jr - Japanese but does not look particularly Japanese to me. This is a 35mm camera which works rather better than I expected it to. Sample picture: This last week I bought a Tougo-do Meisupii J which I am unable to find out much about except it was made in 1951 and uses (or would if still available) Bolta film which is unperforated 35mm film with backing paper rather than being in a cassette. I am going to try to codge up a take-up spool for this and then make a roll of film with normal 35mm film and cut-down 120 backing paper. Shouldn't be too hard. I also have currently in the post another Bencini Comet- this time just a Comet, not a Comet S. I assume this also takes 127 film.
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Apr 27, 2013 6:29:42 GMT -5
The Tougodo Meisupii Bolta film cameras work surprisingly well, the lenses are very reasonable considering the budget nature of the design. The Pal shot is very good indeed. Both cameras were from a class of cameras the Japanese used to refer to as Kiosk cameras, they were sold at fairs and attractions, newsagents, tourist spots, and priced at an impulse buy level. The other name was Toy cameras, meaning sold in Toy stores, but this does not apply to the Pal. The Samoca was probably the best of the less expensive compact 35mm cameras.
Because a lot were bought for children, great effort was made to make these Japanese home market cameras look like far more expensive models, the intention was to provide a camera that looked like the parents more sophisticated cameras.
Tougodo specialised in such cameras, Pal brand were the next step up the camera scale. The lowest type were the Hit "spy" cameras, there were a legion of brands, mainly from Tougodo factories. These use 17.5mm film, which again can be cut at home.
If your up to it, and as it involves both Bolta 35 and 127,(and 828), you can completely solve both films supply with 120 film, and slitting it in the darkroom.
Take a flat piece of plywood, glue two pine battens at 120 width apart, and insert a scalpel blade at the right spacing for 120mm or 35mm,
I use a Stanley blade to cut a slot that has the broken off tip of a scalpel blade glued into it. You can line the channel bottom with smooth plastic sheet to minimise scratches on the emulsion as it is slide through the slitter.
After slitting away a 35mm portion, you can add a spacer strip to make other sizes, my odd bits end up as 16mm supplies for my Russian Vega camera.
Practice pushing and pulling the film through the channel with some scrap film or plastic sheet, keeping the fingers away from the blade! You can add a wooden strip over the channel and above the blade to stop accidents.
The backing for the Bolta, or 127, can be made from black art paper, with correction fluid added at the frame spacings to allow numbers to be written on.(or white matt paint).
With the higher film speeds, I also add black tape to the red window, so it is only opened in lower light to verify wind on.
Hope this helps, Stephen.
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Post by Peltigera on Apr 27, 2013 6:46:04 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, Stephen. The little info I managed to find on the Interweb about Meisupii came from Google's machine translation of Japanese sites. While Google's efforts are actually impressive, the resulting English was, shall I say, interesting rather than informative.
Alas, I have no access to a darkroom and my efforts to make Bolta film must be done in a Jessops light-proof bag. Your method looks to be easier but, alas, not available to me.
And the red window is Green on the Meisupii!
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Apr 27, 2013 6:53:31 GMT -5
Camerapedia Wiki has a lot on the Japanese makers, type the make and Google will find it!! The rarest for information appears to be Lord, but there is plenty on Tougoda, who were around for 60 years. It not that the Japanese are really secretive, but it's the language barrier that holds back a lot, and also older companies did lose a lot of information due to the war, both losses, and deliberate cover up of wartime activities. Also a lot of companies were one man and a dog types, very small family companies, buying in parts etc from bigger makers. Records for these are near impossible to find.
Stephen.
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Apr 27, 2013 6:59:03 GMT -5
Yes, I have just looked at my half frame Meisupii that takes Bolta, and that is also green!. They made both full Bolta frame and half Bolta frame, just a mask added, and a new camera back. They later made a 35mm half frame and a 127 half frame, with almost the same designs. Stephen.
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 27, 2013 7:17:18 GMT -5
Respooling it from 35 mm film would be the best way then. I did it a few times ( also just with a light-proof bag ). It's easy. The tricky part comes, if you don't develop films by yourself ( as I also do not do so ). Then, you need a refillable canister for 35 mm film ... otherwise, the lab usually does not accept the film ... and you also like to have your bolta-film spool back, I guess.
Looking forward to seeing your results !!! Mine have been quite different. The Museflex produced quite acceptable picture, while it was barely recognizable, what was on the shots out of my Hobix Junior. Both also Tougodo cameras from the 50s.
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 27, 2013 7:27:06 GMT -5
Oh and regarding the Comet. I personally like Bencinis and their charm. My Koroll 24s is always loaded with some film. However, I have not been lucky with my Comet A test with ground glass showed, that the focus should be okay, but on the test film EVERY picture was out of focus somehow. I still do not have any explanation for that and I am scared of waisting another role of film. 127 film is still available BTW ... as color slide and as B/W film. Looking forward to your pictures here as well.
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Apr 27, 2013 8:01:09 GMT -5
Oh and regarding the Comet. I personally like Bencinis and their charm. My Koroll 24s is always loaded with some film. However, I have not been lucky with my Comet A test with ground glass showed, that the focus should be okay, but on the test film EVERY picture was out of focus somehow. I still do not have any explanation for that and I am scared of waisting another role of film. 127 film is still available BTW ... as color slide and as B/W film. Looking forward to your pictures here as well. If the test with ground glass was OK and you could repeat it, then all must be all right to use film, as the Bencini used fixed focus or with the focusing models, both used a small aperture, that should give great depth of field to cover up any inaccurate setting. Maybe the film was faulty, or something like a bit of fluff, or paint flake, is floating around loose inside the lens. It could also be the printing, the processors rarely print 127, and could have used the wrong lens in the printer, view the negatives under very strong magnification to check. This assumes a wet printer, not digital which should be sharp as the operator sees the negative on the screen, unless on a tea break!! Stephen.
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Berndt
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Post by Berndt on Apr 27, 2013 10:13:52 GMT -5
Stephen, I am not sure, if I will ever understand, what the issue about my Comet is Yes, that is what I would assume too. I just checked the pictures of my test film again. If focussing on close objects, the background became sharp ( instead of the actual object, that should be in focus - at all pictures, not only one ). My comet has a "guess focus" in feet. I am used to it from my Koroll 24s, which is basically a very similar camera, just using 120 instead of 127 film. I had never any out of focus pictures on my Koroll. Analyzing my test pictures, the first idea was "the lens needs to be adjusted" ... but the Bencini Comet is very simple constructed. There is neither a chance for adjusting the lens nor actually, that the lens can de-adjust by itself ... just by design of the camera. ( I disassembled everything a few times ) Later I checked the camera with a ground glass and the focus should be okay, what is confirming this theory. I also thought about a possible motion blur, but I am sure, that I held the camera steady and my victim for the portrait shots didn't move as well. Nothing loose inside the lens ( there is actually no inside anyway ) and the film ... mmmh ... but why is there some sharpness in the pictures then ( even not there, where it supposes to be ) ? I don't do prints, just scans. The scan of the film was done by a shop, but just now, I scanned the pictures again myself, using a different method ... but the result remains being the same. Viewing the negatives under strong magnification ... puuuh ... hard to tell anything, because there is noting really contrasty, what should be in focus. It might remain a wonder ... except I would sacrifice another roll of film ( should be a slide film then ).
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Apr 27, 2013 16:51:42 GMT -5
Berndt....there might be a clue in the statement that there is nothing inside the lens, as although some Bencini had single glass meniscus lenses on the fixed focus model, the focusing ones has a three element Anastigmat lens, with a space between the glued and plain glass....are all the elements in there? Has somebody taken it part in the past and reassembled it wrongly? Even with the front elements in, but the back missing or wrong way round, with the small aperture it may well appear to focus on glass, but on critical examination on a print to be out of focus. Try to have a harder look at the glass image. Stephen.
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Post by Peltigera on Apr 29, 2013 11:11:17 GMT -5
The Bencini Comet arrived this morning. A bit disappointed with it as it has been tampered with. Then again, I paid £2.50 for it. The lens is loose in its fitting - the actual glass moves about - and the matt black paint inside is scratched around the screws holding the lens housing in place. The focussing ring will not turn - it is solid on seven feet - and I suspect that is why someone took it apart.
The ring that holds the glass lens in place is easy to turn to remove the lens but there is no way of tightening it up - the surface of the ring is entirely smooth so I can get it tightish but no tighter.
On the plus side, the shutter works ok at both speeds, the Waterhouse stops (both of them) move smoothly and it came with a 127 spool (so I might try out my Comet S!). And the camera looks nice. I don't usually like to keep cameras that I cannot use but I think I will make an exception in this case.
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on Apr 29, 2013 11:49:45 GMT -5
They make rather nice polished aluminium paperweights for your desk......... The details of the lens mounting are not known to me, Bencini altered and fiddled with the designs and models quite a lot. Securing rings that have no notches were put in at the factory with a rubber tipped tube to grip the ring. Once tight they added thinned varnish to lock it, .....if they even bothered. Stephen.
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