der84
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Post by der84 on May 13, 2015 8:12:47 GMT -5
I'm thinking of maybe cleaning/polishing up some of my bakelite cameras, but I'm looking for opinions/tips on what to use. I've looked up a couple of things on the internet, but I figure this would be a good place to ask too. As I'm sure someone on here has done it before.
Anybody have any suggestions on what to use that would be safe or that works really well?
Thanks
Derek
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on May 13, 2015 8:45:14 GMT -5
Number one, do not doing anything yet!, use a proper Bakelite cleaner and polish. It is available in the UK, and I suspect via ebay to other countries.
The reason the UK uses lots of it was the General Post Office telephones were all bakelite, and popular due to durabilty, but Bakelite, even black, slowly looses its surface lustre, it oxides, and needs the old surface removed with very fine abrasive compound, mixed with waxes, to seal the new surfaces.
Cameras are the same, but used softer fillers in the mix genrally, and need extra care on polishing.
After saying all of this is best, some car finish restorers also work, as does car wax which contains carnauba wax.
Never use silicon wax or solvent cleaners or course abrasives, and do not use WD-40 or simular sprays. Also very suspect are rubber bumper,(fender), restorers, or the special car finishes that remove scratches.
With special Bakelite finishes like lustreware, or shimmering translucent surfaces, then proper Bakelite cleaner must be used.
All cleaners must be tested on an under surface, to make sure it polishes and does not leave a dull matt finish.
I will look up some references,
Stephen.
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on May 13, 2015 8:58:24 GMT -5
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der84
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Post by der84 on May 14, 2015 10:25:15 GMT -5
Thank you Stephen. I had other suggestions such as Mothers Car Wax, Braasso, Murphy's Oil Soap with water, etc......
You're saying that none of those would be good for the bakelite and the only safer method would be to use the bakelite polish paste that you suggested?
Derek
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on May 14, 2015 11:08:10 GMT -5
In theory all metal polishes will work, but they don't contain any wax to prevent further oxidisation. The General Post Office phones in the UK only trusted the paste No 5 on phones, as anything more abrasive may remove the top surface of Bakelite.
Bakelite is strange stuff, it is a resin, not a plastic, and contains fillers, wood, ash, or organic waste, or ground soft stone etc., and if the top surface wears away it can reveal filler on the surface. The filler is spread evenly within Bakelite, but the surface that touches the hot mould when the object was formed, tends to have less filler in it and develops the glazed top surface.
If the Bakelite loses the glaze, and appears rough, it may respond to polishing, but often remains matt, and has to be rescued by varnishing or french polish,(shellac).
Top quality Bakelite has very fine fillers and responds to polish. Cheaper copies had loads of fillers and once worn it shows badly as matt or rough surfaces.
It actually needs an agressive abrasive like chrome metal cleaner to polish the surface, note, not a course cleaner, and some like Brasso are too mild inaction.
No metal cleaner is unsafe on Bakelite as such, Bakelite is extremely solvent and cleaner proof. But the best stuff is the Paste No5, which was developed by Bakelite Corporation in conjuntion with the General Post Office Telephone research laboratory at Dollis Hill in London.
Even with No5 paste it will require a lot of work to get the polish back, and a Dremel motor tool with a buffing wheel may be the quickest and best method.
Be careful with cameras, they may have chome near the Bakelite and you do not want to polish matt chrome! Mask areas that need protection with paint masking tape.
Also some makers tended to add decoration in raised letters etc, that will wear if buffed to much, so go carefully with hand polishing first.
All Bakelite is real Bakelite, it was closely licensed as it was patented carefully, most camera brands used licensed Bakelite. The Soviets, as usual, went their own way, and most ex communist cameras with Bakelite are polishable in the same way. However it is more brittle, so take care not to chip the corners etc.
Kodak Bakelite is top quality and polishes. Some other makes like Ansco, used rival "bakelite types", and may be softer, and Brasso may work better with these plastics.
If Lucite, British Perspex, is the plastic, then use Brasso or a good quality chrome cleaner paste.
Stephen.
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der84
Senior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by der84 on May 14, 2015 11:17:33 GMT -5
In theory all metal polishes will work, but they don't contain any wax to prevent further oxidisation. The General Post Office phones in the UK only trusted the paste No 5 on phones, as anything more abrasive may remove the top surface of Bakelite. Bakelite is strange stuff, it is a resin, not a plastic, and contains fillers, wood, ash, or organic waste, or ground soft stone etc., and if the top surface wears away it can reveal filler on the surface. The filler is spread evenly within Bakelite, but the surface that touches the hot mould when the object was formed, tends to have less filler in it and develops the glazed top surface. If the Bakelite loses the glaze, and appears rough, it may respond to polishing, but often remains matt, and has to be rescued by varnishing or french polish,(shellac). Top quality Bakelite has very fine fillers and responds to polish. Cheaper copies had loads of fillers and once worn it shows badly as matt or rough surfaces. It actually needs an agressive abrasive like chrome metal cleaner to polish the surface, note, not a course cleaner, and some like Brasso are too mild inaction. No metal cleaner is unsafe on Bakelite as such, Bakelite is extremely solvent and cleaner proof. But the best stuff is the Paste No5, which was developed by Bakelite Corporation in conjuntion with the General Post Office Telephone research laboratory at Dollis Hill in London. Even with No5 paste it will require a lot of work to get the polish back, and a Dremel motor tool with a buffing wheel may be the quickest and best method. Be careful with cameras, they may have chome near the Bakelite and you do not want to polish matt chrome! Mask areas that need protection with paint masking tape. Also some makers tended to add decoration in raised letters etc, that will wear if buffed to much, so go carefully with hand polishing first. All Bakelite is real Bakelite, it was closely licensed as it was patented carefully, most camera brands used licensed Bakelite. The Soviets, as usual, went their own way, and most ex communist cameras with Bakelite are polishable in the same way. However it is more brittle, so take care not to chip the corners etc. Kodak Bakelite is top quality and polishes. Some other makes like Ansco, used rival "bakelite types", and may be softer, and Brasso may work better with these plastics. If Lucite, British Perspex, is the plastic, then use Brasso or a good quality chrome cleaner paste. Stephen. The one camera that I am really looking at polishing is an Agfa Trolix. From what I've read was made of trolite. Another form of bakelite I take it? Would that be similar to the rival bakelite types that Ansco used? Sorry for all the questions. |
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Stephen
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Post by Stephen on May 14, 2015 11:46:13 GMT -5
Agfa and Ansco were the same company pre 2nd War, so it is very likely the plastic is Trolite, treat as Bakelite for cleaning, I would try a spot of Brasso if available in Canada (or any leading brand of brass polish). Chrome polish is the next up the "aggresive" scale.
Brasso is safe as it is a so called self destructive abrasive, as it is used, it breaks down to a finer grade. Some US brands of brass polish are not able to break down, and are a bit courser. Paint restorer like "Tcut" will also work, but rubbing compound comes in many grades, some of which may be to course.
I had long experience of finest grade surfaces finishes in the GPO, Model Engineering and Scientific instrument manufacture, but only on the GPO did we polish Bakelite. My other experience though is on a small collection of Bakelite Radios, and I have always used Paste No 5 if available.
For final polishing, carnauba wax, mixed with Beeswax is the very best finish....or use a top quality car wax. Oddly I do not personally find Simonize the best, they add things to suit paint. Liberon wax for wood antiques is very good indeed.
Stephen.
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der84
Senior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by der84 on May 14, 2015 11:58:45 GMT -5
Agfa and Ansco were the same company pre 2nd War, so it is very likely the plastic is Trolite, treat as Bakelite for cleaning, I would try a spot of Brasso if available in Canada (or any leading brand of brass polish). Chrome polish is the next up the "aggresive" scale. Brasso is safe as it is a so called self destructive abrasive, as it is used, it breaks down to a finer grade. Some US brands of brass polish are not able to break down, and are a bit courser. Paint restorer like "Tcut" will also work, but rubbing compound comes in many grades, some of which may be to course. I had long experience of finest grade surfaces finishes in the GPO, Model Engineering and Scientific instrument manufacture, but only on the GPO did we polish Bakelite. My other experience though is on a small collection of Bakelite Radios, and I have always used Past No 5 if available. For final polishing, carnauba wax, mixed with Beeswax is the very best finish....or use a top quality car wax. Oddly I do not personally find Simonize the best, they add things to suit paint. Liberon wax for wood antiques is very good indeed. Stephen. Thanks for all the help Stephen. Very much appreciated.  Hosted on FotkiFor the most part, it's in pretty decent shape (slightly dirty in the photo) with just a little matting to it. So, I shall see what I can do with it. |
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Post by philbirch on May 14, 2015 15:57:38 GMT -5
Good info from Stephen. Lets see how you get on .
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